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Original poster

Post Westminster Hall Debate - what are the next steps to ensure the sex based rights of biological women

323 replies

IwantToRetire · 12/06/2023 21:14

The other thread is now full https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800027-debate-relating-to-the-definition-of-sex-in-the-equality-act-2010-will-be-in-westminster-hall-on-12-june-2023-430pm

And what it will achieve we will have to wait and see.

But is clarifying the EA the most important campaign to ensure women's sex based rights.

Or ...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
SunnyEgg · 16/06/2023 07:23

OldCrone · 15/06/2023 20:24

Noticeable that so few Labour MPs spoke. I wonder if more of them wanted to and there wasn't time.

Several Labour MPs spoke. They just didn't support women's rights.

Labour MPs Angela Eagle, Nia Griffith, Luke Pollard, Lloyd Russell-Moyle and Anneliese Dodds all spoke. None of them support women.

Only Rosie Duffield and Jess Phillips actually made pro-women speeches.

Yes you’re right, they’re not on the list below as they were majority TWAW

OhHolyJesus · 16/06/2023 07:18

Dont think many of them were at the Debate?

Maria Caufield, Minister for Women was at the debate and gave a statement in response.

twitter.com/sexmattersorg/status/1668717992358686720?s=46&t=3vhG_KDq77qvuwlnTiE6jg

Noticeable that so few Labour MPs spoke.

Significant though that Tonia Antoniazzi as petition's committee chair did and Jess Phillips, a previous supporter of TWAW, spoke to personally about biology and how her sex mattered in her life.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/06/12/labour-mp-challenge-keir-starmer-single-sex-spaces/

LoobiJee · 16/06/2023 06:04

IwantToRetire · 16/06/2023 01:11

Joanna Cherry: The benefits of UK clarifying what 'sex' means ...
She now serves as Labour's shadow minister for domestic violence and safeguarding. When both she and an expert review set up by the Scottish Government say...
.
4 hours ago

Article by Joanna Cherry which somehow no longer seems available.

Did anyone see it?

It’s there now.

OP posts:
HootyMcBooby76 · 15/06/2023 23:46

There IS no new science in terms of human sex.

Do you know why?

If human knowledge was wiped out tomorrow and we all had to start again as neanderthal man, exactly the same process of experiments, and the long long process of learning and knowledge would lead to EXACTLY the same conclusions.
That's what makes it a fact. It is not an opinion.

Females will STILL be female egg producers who gestate and carry young.
Males will STILL be male sperm producers who impregnate females.

Those conclusions would be the same, and they will still be the same in 1000'000 if mankind still exists.

Two gametes. No third gamete, no third sex.

Hepwo · 15/06/2023 23:16

People are being prescribed drugs and therapies based on their biological sex and the OLD science. It's happening all day, every day, every where.

Exactly, trans health care is based on old biology, that crazy two sexes malarkey. Surely that's genocide when no-one actually knows anyone's chromosomes.

And sports, that is old biology, surely there should be a human spectrum for categories.
Perhaps that Mermaids barbie and GU chart is the new science for Olympics categories.

Maybe all of the little figures randomly have sperm and eggs or you might find speggs and spergs in there somewhere.

I bet Mishy will bring us the Barbie/GI science any minute now.

Boiledbeetle · 15/06/2023 22:59

@ArabeIIaScott

unimpressed grumpy cat GIF
Tinysoxx · 15/06/2023 22:58

Frankenstein (not his monster) had a thing for ‘new science’. It didn’t end well. Luckily it was fiction written by a clever woman.

QuickWash · 15/06/2023 22:51

Hahaha @ArabeIIaScott !

I just don't understand how and why, if there is all this new science, we're not stridently rolling it out in medical schools, nursing courses and to pharmacists, sports scientists, dieticians, dentists, laboratory staff, the blood transfusion service, geneticists....

We need to get it out there.

People are being prescribed drugs and therapies based on their biological sex and the OLD science. It's happening all day, every day, every where.

If Mishy and friends are in the possession of NEW science then they must not hoard it like dinosaurs.....

TheBiologyStupid · 15/06/2023 22:37

Brilliant, Arabella!

ArabeIIaScott · 15/06/2023 22:30

Any new science? Any new science?

Any any any new science?

What's up sweet; did you find a third gamete,
Under the fridge or behind the sofa seat?

Boiledbeetle · 15/06/2023 22:10

Just catching up. Was so looking forward to the, well you know.

I see like buses it's not turned up

Maybe three posters will turn up at once with the same new science.

JanesLittleGirl · 15/06/2023 21:40

Waitwhat23 · 15/06/2023 21:13

I'm assuming Mishy hasn't been back as their 'evidence' was that risable 'Sex Redefined' article and Mishy has just realised that we've all seen it before.

No! I was so looking forward to the new science.

Waitwhat23 · 15/06/2023 21:13

I'm assuming Mishy hasn't been back as their 'evidence' was that risable 'Sex Redefined' article and Mishy has just realised that we've all seen it before.

Florissante · 15/06/2023 21:12

This isn't the first time @MishyJDI promised new science and then disappeared from the thread when challenged.

Confusedmumannoyedson · 15/06/2023 20:34

Looks like @MishyJDI hasn't returned with her new shiny science to replace the old science.

Reminds me of the student who confidently (arrogantly) said to Prof Winston when he said that you cannot change your biological sex on Question Time some time ago replied "science has moved on now and you can". I wonder if that melt actually ever realised what she sounded like.

OldCrone · 15/06/2023 20:24

Noticeable that so few Labour MPs spoke. I wonder if more of them wanted to and there wasn't time.

Several Labour MPs spoke. They just didn't support women's rights.

Labour MPs Angela Eagle, Nia Griffith, Luke Pollard, Lloyd Russell-Moyle and Anneliese Dodds all spoke. None of them support women.

Only Rosie Duffield and Jess Phillips actually made pro-women speeches.

TheBiologyStupid · 15/06/2023 20:13

The shiny new science? Not yet - I can't imagine why...

Hepwo · 15/06/2023 20:01

Did we get the science?

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 15/06/2023 18:59

re very useful list from arabellascott

Noticeable that so few Labour MPs spoke. I wonder if more of them wanted to and there wasn't time.

On another thread or maybe this one, someone implied you could only write to your own MP. Clearly this is not true, because many MPs are on Committees and / or working on behalf of special interest groups. So there are many reasons why contacting an MP is more than appropriate.

Which I suppose means we should maybe focus on the Women and Equalities Committee (gulp) because of any "caucus" within Westminster they are the one who could most legitemately push for a clarification on the meaning of sex within the EA.

But would they do it?

Dont think many of them were at the Debate? Not worried about issues of Equality or Women https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/328/women-and-equalities-committee/membership/

OP posts:
Original poster
IwantToRetire · 15/06/2023 18:38

re the EA -

It combined previously separate acts, such as SEX discrimiantion and in doing so watered down the provisions for SEX discrimination because it had to include GRA provisions.

And in combining different protected characteristics it had to deal with when there were conflicting rights. And as Lady Haldane said those drafting the legislation chose to say that "for all purposes" someone with a GRC "legally" (or intending to apply for one) became the opposite sex. However where there is stated to be the need for specific purposes that it mean biological sex these are allowed via the exemptions.

Anyhow, this is how the EA is currently interpreted.

This is why there has been a campaign to re-word the EA (though better to repeal the GRA!). Lady Haldane points out that those wording the EA could so easily have added this clarification and chose not to. And MPs on voting for it didn't question it either. But I suspect they, like many of them, never thought sex would mean anything other than biological.

So it would be interesting to see whoever is giving FWS legal advice that a court can changed what more now recognise can only be resolved by amending the EA.

(I cant find any reference to gender re-assignment not being a protected characteristic https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csoh90.pdf?sfvrsn=8eee302c_1)

OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 15/06/2023 17:24

Excellent video, thanks Arabella!

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 15/06/2023 17:06

Ha! Good point, @ArabeIIaScott

SunnyEgg · 15/06/2023 16:53

I’m glad I left out Jackie Doyle Price as I couldn’t recall her speaking so was going to check

I’ve had some really good replies already, importantly that they will continue to push forward on this, against the erosion of women’s rights

ArabeIIaScott · 15/06/2023 15:42

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 15/06/2023 15:23

I do wish they'd mix it up a bit. Clownfish are soooo 2015. Why can't we have European pond turtles, jack-in-the-pulpit or platypuses for a change?

It's an excuse for this, though:

Francis Aaron – Clownfish

"Clownfish" – a rap song about the transgender medical experiment on children. BUY this SONG: – https://gum.co/clownfishSUPPORT US and help us make more vide...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV-Exeal17s