Jailing a mother of three - WTF

I haven't seen anyone suggesting we don't allow abortions at all, or even arguing for a decrease in the limit so your IVF embryos example has nothing to do with this discussion about late term abortion.

Also, it's only with modern technology that babies can survive if born at 34 weeks. So, are we saying that women have less rights because of improvement in neonatal care?

They're not, and I think it's pretty awful tbh. Obviously it can be very very tough to have a child with a disability but this has nothing to do with choices over bodily autonomy and everything to do with choosing what kind of child you're prepared to look after.

I literally said I doubt it does function as much of a deterrent, but in any case your examples seem pretty spurious. Nobody is under the impression abortion is illegal, and even if all they saw was a headline they would be perfectly aware this was a highly unusual case. Nobody has to guess how far along they are either. If you're pregnant and don't want to be and you somehow read half a headline and got confused, healthcare professionals exist and so does Google. Why do you keep making things up? Should all our laws be based on a hypothetical person who can't some understand basic facts?

I am 36 weeks pregnant and have noticed my baby kicking since 20 weeks. Earlier than that it felt like little flutters/trapped wind. Since around 28 weeks the kicks have been very hard. Definitely feels like a small human kicking me and absolutely nothing like trapped wind. More recently I have seen the kicks by looking at my bump.

Women on this thread need to stop making excuses for a woman who deliberately chose very late term abortion. She knew how far along she was and could’ve asked for help in her first trimester. She deserves a prison sentence because her baby could’ve survived outside the womb.

Women are actively encouraged to abort at a late stage if the baby has down syndrome. Why are those lives less valid?

Exactly

I agree with you 100%.

Where is the line? What if she gave birth then clubbed the bab to death? Or her partner abused her and the foetus lost her life?

Mental health must always be kept in mind. But criminal intentionality must be attended to.

I've kread a lot of threads on here about women who say they have trapped wind that feels exactly like a baby kicking. I also genuinely don't remember noticing my bump moving from the outside when I was pregnant, it probably did thinking about it but I mustn't have noticed. Plus, I imagine women at the start of perimenopause know somewhat less about what it will be like for them than they will looking back on it a decade or so later.

By that reasoning, all IVF embryos must be implanted into a woman's uterus at some point because destroying them is worse than being born to someone who doesn't want them. Luckily, Parliament understood the importance of considering the life that the child will have if born when writing HFEA90 and didn't mandate this.

“She said she didn't think she was so far along. “

She was lying. Her google history proved that in court.

Please stop trying to create a false narrative.

She said she didn't think she was so far along. The use of 'deterrent' is interesting. This is such a rare case, unique even, what on earth would others be deterred from? Having an abortion at all in case eg they're further along than they think and they might be reported or something, young and got the message they would be punished, or being left with the vague impression it's illegal because they think a woman was jailed for having one but they don't know the full details (which most won't)?

Alltheprettyseahorses · Today 10:32
Badbadbunny · Today 10:20

111 was answering calls throughout and would arrange GP phone calls or appointments with clinics etc. GP surgeries were never the only option.

“What were the other options like?”

For a start, taking the abortion pill months earlier.

“At 45 I'd assume perimenopause rather than pregnancy tbh no matter how many children I had. She shouldn't have had to cover it up, there should be no threat of prosecution for a woman who had an abortion.”

She didn’t, as was proven in court. At 59 and postmenopause, I would certainly have known the difference. Menopausal women’s abdomen’s generally don’t move internally.

You may not believe in prosecution for late stage self-administered abortion but I don’t understand why you and other poster’s continue to pretend this particular case was an innocent mistake when it’s been proven beyond doubt in court that it was not. It was a deliberate, calculated act.

What were the other options like?

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/covid-19/what-the-bma-is-doing/covid-19-impact-of-the-pandemic-on-healthcare-delivery

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/hospital-outpatient-activity/2020-21/covid-19-impact

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58670560.amp

Surely people haven't forgotten what it was like.

This is simply untrue. She did not make a mistake in her dates, and she was able to access healthcare. It would help if you were able to stick to the facts of the case rather than trying to conjure up a more sympathetic fiction. I'm not particularly punitively minded (if that's the right way to put it), I don't know the full details of this woman's 'story' or see the point in giving her prison sentence except vaguely as a deterrent, if that even works for something like this. But be real please: she knew her dates and she had ample opportunity to obtain an abortion months beforehand.

For context, she was clearly in her "right mind" to do internet searches and knew how far gone she was:-

The prosecution said Foster made a number of internet searches between February and May 2020, including "how to hide a pregnancy bump", "how to have an abortion without going to the doctor" and "how to lose a baby at six months"

At 45 I'd assume perimenopause rather than pregnancy tbh no matter how many children I had. She shouldn't have had to cover it up, there should be no threat of prosecution for a woman who had an abortion.

111 was answering calls throughout and would arrange GP phone calls or appointments with clinics etc. GP surgeries were never the only option.

One hell of a "mistake"! And "healthcare" WAS available! She could have had a legal abortion if she'd wanted to - many people continued to have abortions and obtain healthcare during the covid lockdowns.

The baby could have been born viable with minimum medical intervention at the age it was aborted. If she'd given birth and killed the baby, it would have been murder.

Not sure what the difference is really.

Our local GP surgery weren't answering the phone during lockdown never mind seeing people and is barely any better even now. Our walk-in centre was operating extremely restricted hours. But it's beyond some people to think not everyone will have access to the A* healthcare they did.

For instance, this:

https://www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/100-years-of-the-infanticide-act

Note that it states 'it has been decades since a woman convicted of infanticide has been imprisoned'. So no, that hasn't 'happened many times' and if she'd killed a new born instead of had an illegal late term abortion she'd not have been sentenced to prison. That makes no sense.

Go on. What dreadful punishment would you like to be inflicted on a woman who procured an abortion while making a mistake in her dates at a time when she was unable to access healthcare?”

Just not true in this case, as her google history demonstrated in court. Even without that evidence, do you not find it a stretch to believe that a woman who had already been pregnant at least three times already would make such a miscalculation?
This woman euthanised, to put it extremely kindly, her near full term baby, tried to cover it up then consistently lied when medical staff were suspicious and continued to lie and plead not guilty in court.

The sentence was fair.

Made a mistake with dates?! Yeah right, pull the other one. She knew full well she was telling bare faced lies.

And as for, unable to access healthcare...that's BS too. She had plenty of time before the lock down to do it, but she waited. As well as this, plenty of women on other threads about this subject have stated that they had abortions during lockdown.

Go on. What dreadful punishment would you like to be inflicted on a woman who procured an abortion while making a mistake in her dates at a time when she was unable to access healthcare?