Data on violence against trans people & women

The hate crime statistics are evidence that transpeople suffer more violence than the average person

They show nothing of the kind.

1. Hate crimes are predominantly not violence against the person.

2. Hate crimes are not comparing crime rates with violence suffered by the average person. At best, you can compare rates of hate crimes against the different categories recognised - race, disability etc - but, as all groups rely on self-identification, this is hard to do reliably.

3. Hate crimes effectively exclude most of the population. In theory, you might be a victim of a hate crime for being white or heterosexual, but clearly this is going to be a tiny percentage of actual hate crime, if any. So it is impossible for hate crime data to tell you anything about violence against hate crime categories, compared to the average person.

Not sure what point he's making, but this is just a rehash of the old men's rights refrain that men are at greater risk of (male) violence than women.

Yep.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/public-order-offences-incorporating-charging-standard

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2021-to-2022/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2021-to-2022

happy Sunday

Harassment
Public fear, alarm or distress

Both could potentially include social media.

Hurty tweets are public order offences.

Malicious Comms. Banners and posters can be public order offences I think.

Until you look at the actual criminal offences.
Assault with injury
Assault without Injury
Harassment
Public fear, alarm or distress
Criminal damage to a dwelling
Criminal damage to a building other than a dwelling
Criminal damage to a vehicle

note the absence of “hurty tweets”

Criminal offences can be:

Malicious communication (eg social media, emails)
Harassment (misgendering etc)
Public order act (saying something offensive)
Criminal damage (putting up stickers, graffiti)

You’re clearly not capable of looking up the legal definition of a hate crime.
Why should I spell out the definition of a hate crime when you can simply look up anything you do not understand?

Yes your trans statistic webpage that records trans homicide victims on the basis of what what person happens to remember when they wrote it is absolute bollocks. Don’t tar all statistics sources with the same brush as what your paltry can’t even find a definition research skills have turned up.

"Hate crime is defined as ‘any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards someone based on a personal characteristic.’ "

There's the EW definition of hate crime. It's fairly broad, no? Thanks to the people who posted the link.

This is like arguing with an actual chicken on meth. Can't believe I'm wasting my beautiful Sunday morning doing this!

Hurty tweets are public order offences.

Hurty tweets are not hate crimes. They are non crime hate incidents.

(51%) of the hate crimes recorded by the police were for public order offences and a 41% were for violence against the person offences; five per cent were recorded as criminal damage and arson offences

The question in the OP is: are trans people in the UK more vulnerable to male violence than women? No evidence has been supplied to show that they are. Hate crime statistics cannot answer this question, because they do not consider crimes against women.

I notice that @ReleasetheCrackHen and others on her side are studiously ignoring the statistics I have shared about sexual offending, so here they are again.

TL:DR: no evidence that trans people in the UK are more vulnerable than women to male violence.
Cast iron evidence that trans women are far more likely to be incarcerated for sex crimes than other males, let alone women.

@ReleasetheCrackHen

You're clearly not capable of arguing in good faith. If a particular form of words was intrinsic to my argument, you'd be sure I'd be posting it on the thread rather than vaguely signalling its existence without spelling it out.

And that is because you know all trans statistics are basically made up bollocks, from dubious sources and with lots of confounding issues and bias.

Presumably this is the report CrackHen can't bring themselves to link to but keeps referencing:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/hatecrimeinenglandandwales

E&W only, of course.

Oh and for anyone else who like CrackHen doesn't know how to find their own data;
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2021-to-2022/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2021-to-2022

How convenient to accept shit data that is know to not record what you’d actually need to come to an evidence based conclusion.

Jesus christ, CrackHen, why are you so twitchy about posting the actual bloody definition? It's this;

Hate crime is defined as ‘any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards someone based on a personal characteristic.’

Doesn't mention violence at all,and thus does absolutely include hurty tweets if someone perceives those tweets to be related to a PC.

used to being silver spooned are we?

The hate crime statistics are evidence that transpeople suffer more violence than the average person. That is valid data and evidence.

Repeatedly pointing out that women are not a separate demographic but represented within all the demographics is pointless and represent a lack of understanding how different strands of evidence can be used to prove different ancillary points.

How about you read the ONS hate crime report and learn the legal definition of a hate crime for yourself? I’m not using a made up definition. I’m using the legal definition from the report.

Then it shouldn't be difficult to post it on the thread?

Ummm ok
England by sex

Why exactly do you think the Home Secretary was releasing new guidance last year? Because police forces had been merrily recording by gender identity.

FFS.

How about you read the ONS hate crime report and learn the legal definition of a hate crime for yourself? I’m not using a made up definition. I’m using the legal definition from the report.

Zero searches of databases. Zero requests for data from ONS/police. Zero searches of homicide victims and zero interviews with family members,

Nope, it’s those that I happen to have heard about and remember- “as far as I know”

What are your figures then, I assume you must have some to consider MTF trans people especially vulnerable to homicide?

Personally I go with the TDOR figures.