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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Data on violence against trans people & women

261 replies

TangoTarantella · 10/06/2023 12:33

This morning my DP (male) said that trans people were at greater risk of male violence than women. I pointed out that around 2 women a week are murdered by men in the UK (is that just by current or former partners?) and the figure for trans people was around 0. He said that if around 1% of the population are trans then at the same rate of murder of women you’d expect 0 to 1 trans murder per year so therefore in line. Kind of disproving his own point but I’d like some solid data to end this debate with him.

I haven’t been able to find any data on murder rates in trans people or the overall % of trans people in the population. Can anyone point me to any? It has really upset me that he came out with this statement so confidently and I would like to show him that he’s wrong.

Obviously there is more to violence than murder and I imagine women are at far great risk of rape/sexual assault from men than transwomen are. But are there any data on that?

Please help me to educate him otherwise he may be heading for the bin.

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ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:51

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:45

How convenient to accept shit data that is know to not record what you’d actually need to come to an evidence based conclusion.

Goodness, best mention to the Trans Day of Remembrance compilers that their data is "shit".

The evidence based conclusion is that there is no trans murder epidemic.

That was to your ‘statistics’ page
https://kareningalasmith.com/2021/04/21/counting-dead-trans-people/

Counting Dead Trans People

No, Angela Crawley, in the UK, it’s not the same and it’s not a greater risk In the Women and Equalities Select Committee on reform of the Gender Recognition Act on 21 April 2021, Angel…

https://kareningalasmith.com/2021/04/21/counting-dead-trans-people/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:50

Nope. Asians are 2x likely compared to white people to be victims of homicide.

Homicide isn't the only "crime against the person" is it? As we see, given there is no trans murder epidemic according to any data we have, but you apparently have data that states (however reliably) that trans people are more at risk of violence?

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 11/06/2023 10:49

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:47

Nope. Asians are 2x likely compared to white people to be victims of homicide.

When you start fabricating statistics to fit your narrative- is that being in good faith? Is that the type of evidence you are used to trotting out?

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/ethnic-minorities-at-much-higher-risk-of-homicide-in-england-and-wales

From gov.uk

The Asian ethnic group (2%) were significantly less likely than the White ethnic group (4%) to be victims of a personal crime

Ethnicity and the Criminal Justice System, 2020

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-statistics-2020/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2020

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:49

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 11/06/2023 10:46

You really don't allow facts to muddy your arguments, do you?

From the CPS

Electronic communications sent via social media may involve the commission of a range of offences, including: offences against the person, public justice, sexual or public order offences, and Harassment, Stalking, and Controlling & Coercive Behaviour.

Speaking of muddying, it’s clear that only applies to
Intimidating a witness or juror, contrary to section 51 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994*

So, not ‘hurty tweets’ regarding gender ideology and also not a hate crime.

Witness intimidation | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps-page/witness-intimidation

ArabeIIaScott · 11/06/2023 10:48

Focus, Hen, focus! Stop swerving!

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:47

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 11/06/2023 10:42

41% isn’t a small number, it’s second largest type of hate crime
Do you not know the meaning of 'predominantly'?

Hate crimes exist because those demographics have been shown to have a higher rate of being victims of violent crime than the average person. A demographic is not eligible to be covered under hate crime legislation unless this is the case.

Nope. Hate crimes are those considered to be particularly socially divisive.

Asian people are half as likely to be the victims of a crime against the person against white people, but much more likely to have the crime logged as a hate crime, as clearly it is much more likely to be racially motivated.

Nope. Asians are 2x likely compared to white people to be victims of homicide.

When you start fabricating statistics to fit your narrative- is that being in good faith? Is that the type of evidence you are used to trotting out?

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/ethnic-minorities-at-much-higher-risk-of-homicide-in-england-and-wales

Ethnic minorities at much higher risk of homicide in England and Wales

Calculations now familiar from coronavirus coverage – cases per 100,000 people – applied to ethnicity and homicide victimisation in the UK for the first time. 

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/ethnic-minorities-at-much-higher-risk-of-homicide-in-england-and-wales

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:47

This is borne out by both police data and data from friends and family members of murdered people.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 11/06/2023 10:46

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:42

That’s different from the Public Order Act and therefore offences are not Public Order offences.

You really don't allow facts to muddy your arguments, do you?

From the CPS

Electronic communications sent via social media may involve the commission of a range of offences, including: offences against the person, public justice, sexual or public order offences, and Harassment, Stalking, and Controlling & Coercive Behaviour.

Social Media and other Electronic Communications | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/social-media-and-other-electronic-communications

ArabeIIaScott · 11/06/2023 10:46

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:42

That’s different from the Public Order Act and therefore offences are not Public Order offences.

Distribution of offences flagged as hate crimes

51% 'public order'

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:45

How convenient to accept shit data that is know to not record what you’d actually need to come to an evidence based conclusion.

Goodness, best mention to the Trans Day of Remembrance compilers that their data is "shit".

The evidence based conclusion is that there is no trans murder epidemic.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:42

That’s different from the Public Order Act and therefore offences are not Public Order offences.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 11/06/2023 10:42

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:33

“Hate crimes are predominantly not violence against the person.”
41% isn’t a small number, it’s second largest type of hate crime

“Hate crimes are not comparing crime rates with violence suffered by the average person”
Hate crimes exist because those demographics have been shown to have a higher rate of being victims of violent crime than the average person. A demographic is not eligible to be covered under hate crime legislation unless this is the case.

41% isn’t a small number, it’s second largest type of hate crime
Do you not know the meaning of 'predominantly'?

Hate crimes exist because those demographics have been shown to have a higher rate of being victims of violent crime than the average person. A demographic is not eligible to be covered under hate crime legislation unless this is the case.

Nope. Hate crimes are those considered to be particularly socially divisive.

Asian people are half as likely to be the victims of a crime against the person against white people, but much more likely to have the crime logged as a hate crime, as clearly it is much more likely to be racially motivated.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:42

ArabeIIaScott · 11/06/2023 10:37

Mate, don't be so daft. Read the link I posted.

Apparently you didn’t read it. The only reference to SM is to tell prosecutors to look at Communications Offences- which are different acts from the Public Order Act.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:40

You do know that SM isn’t “in public” and public order offences do not apply to SM (tweets)?

If you bothered to read my posts you would see that I know what a public order offence is. SM can be covered by harassment and "causing public fear, alarm or distress".

PonyPatter44 · 11/06/2023 10:38

You might "know how to look it up", but you didn't, did you? Which makes me wonder if you've ever actually seen these figures in the raw before.

ArabeIIaScott · 11/06/2023 10:37

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:36

You do know that SM isn’t “in public” and public order offences do not apply to SM (tweets)?

Mate, don't be so daft. Read the link I posted.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:34

Distribution of offences flagged as hate crimes

51% 'public order'

How astonishing. This is my surprised face.

You do know that SM isn’t “in public” and public order offences do not apply to SM (tweets)?

ArabeIIaScott · 11/06/2023 10:35

Most 'violence against the person' is 'violence against the person without injury', thankfully.

This bar chart shows the proportion of different offences quite clearly.

Data on violence against trans people & women
ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:35

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:30

Criminal damage: graffiti, stickering.

The report mentions "anti Muslim graffiti" specifically.

Do you think we came down in the last shower, Crackhen? It's a new twist on pigeon chess, anyway.

At least this pigeon knows how to look up the definition of a hate crime and knows the meaning of one. If I’m a pigeon playing chess, then you must be a potted plant.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:34

Distribution of offences flagged as hate crimes

51% 'public order'

How astonishing. This is my surprised face.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 11/06/2023 10:33

“Hate crimes are predominantly not violence against the person.”
41% isn’t a small number, it’s second largest type of hate crime

“Hate crimes are not comparing crime rates with violence suffered by the average person”
Hate crimes exist because those demographics have been shown to have a higher rate of being victims of violent crime than the average person. A demographic is not eligible to be covered under hate crime legislation unless this is the case.

ArabeIIaScott · 11/06/2023 10:33

Distribution of offences flagged as hate crimes

51% 'public order'

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:31

happy Sunday

Catch up, @PonyPatter44 has already done that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2023 10:30

Criminal damage: graffiti, stickering.

The report mentions "anti Muslim graffiti" specifically.

Do you think we came down in the last shower, Crackhen? It's a new twist on pigeon chess, anyway.

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