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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Data on violence against trans people & women

261 replies

TangoTarantella · 10/06/2023 12:33

This morning my DP (male) said that trans people were at greater risk of male violence than women. I pointed out that around 2 women a week are murdered by men in the UK (is that just by current or former partners?) and the figure for trans people was around 0. He said that if around 1% of the population are trans then at the same rate of murder of women you’d expect 0 to 1 trans murder per year so therefore in line. Kind of disproving his own point but I’d like some solid data to end this debate with him.

I haven’t been able to find any data on murder rates in trans people or the overall % of trans people in the population. Can anyone point me to any? It has really upset me that he came out with this statement so confidently and I would like to show him that he’s wrong.

Obviously there is more to violence than murder and I imagine women are at far great risk of rape/sexual assault from men than transwomen are. But are there any data on that?

Please help me to educate him otherwise he may be heading for the bin.

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AndYou · 10/06/2023 13:20

What he needs to focus on is that people are at risk from men regardless of any gender breakdown or self ID it is mainly men doing most of the violence. Why is he feeling the need to go down this route anyway? That would be my greatest concern.

TheGreatATuin · 10/06/2023 13:20

Tbh, if he wants to make that claim, it's up to him to prove it. Ask him to give you the actual data and tell him you'll be happy to be proved wrong if he can find it. Let him spend his time trying to find evidence for his claims. Maybe he'll learn not to spout nonsense without checking the facts first.

Rightsraptor · 10/06/2023 13:18

When he says trans people, who does he mean - transwomen or transmen? There'll be different rates for them. In some countries, tw are disproportionately represented in groups who sell sex, while I don't think tm are. Selling one's body is always dangerous.

Most murdered men are murdered by other men. Do we count tw in this group (I do) or do we count them as women?

All very muddy.

TheGreatATuin · 10/06/2023 13:13

If its not even possible to work out what the rate is because there are so few incidents - even when counting across the entire country and across decades - then it's not a significant issue.
By contrast, violence against women rates are known and verifiable because it is so frequent and common.

BaronMunchausen · 10/06/2023 13:10

It's an odd point to make, as men in general are at a higher risk of being victims of violent crime than women*.

Does this mean that men in general should be given shelter in women's spaces?

It's an off-the-shelf comment, a trope propagated by TRAs, I doubt much thought has gone into it. A key plank of the TRA platform is that the fears and anxieties of women and girls are irrational and worthy of derision.

*obviously doesn't apply in the specific contexts of domestic violence and sexual violence

kelsaycobbles · 10/06/2023 13:08

There are differences across the world

For example in the americas transo
wmen often become prostitutes and as such are murdered at a much higher rate than women or men ( the same rate as none transgender prostitutes however )

And we might expect on the uk that transwomen are murdered at a higher rate than women - it would not be surprising if it was the same rate as none transgender men

DarkForces · 10/06/2023 12:54

I suggest your dh has a word with vast majority of perpetrators (men) rather than expecting women to put themselves at greater risk by opening up our spaces

NecessaryScene · 10/06/2023 12:51

One thing to bear in mind is that "risk" isn't the same thing as "incidence".

Having had 0 of your chickens killed by foxes or dogs in the last 5 years doesn't mean you don't have to be worried about foxes or dogs killing your chickens.

Women and society lessen incidence of violence against women by taking extra protective steps - like separating men from women in various scenarios - because women are at greater risk. And also because it's easy - you can effectively protect half the population with one simple measure - keeping women apart from men. But you can't so easily keep men apart from men.

In terms of incidence, violence against men is higher than against women. And violence against men who say they're women tends to be similar as other men. Where it isn't, it's because of other factors - eg in South America there are huge numbers of "transwomen" in prostitution - increased risk the same as women involved in it. In the UK/US most "transwomen" tend to be relatively well-off/middle-class, so are at lower risk then the general male population.

What's notable in the UK is that "transwomen" offenders outnumber "transwomen" victims - something that's not true for men in general. So the victim stats are similar, but offender stats are not.

TangoTarantella · 10/06/2023 12:48

Good point titchy, thanks. I was so taken aback that he said it I couldn’t think straight.

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titchy · 10/06/2023 12:42

Well his maths are wrong for a start.... if he reckons 1% of the population is trans (ONS doesn't agree) then as that's as that's a fiftieth of the female population, the murder rate would be a fiftieth, so 2 per year. Not 1 in the last ten years or whatever it is.

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