Bearded femme gains legal access to female only nude spa

Which would unfortunately not be safe for them. Men kill women who laugh at them.

He might get off on that. A lot of these type of gender-special men who collect fetishes like they're Pokemon have a "humiliation kink".

What I would do if I went to that spa is laugh at him. And I'd persuade all the other 'incidental' women to join in with a mass ridiculing session so that we all pointed at him and fell about laughing. And then we could whisper behind our hands while staring at him, just like at school.

And I expect a lot of German trans women find it very frustrating that this is somewhere where once they have taken their girl clothes off they look just like all the other men, and I expect some of the other men will have moobs too.

This is about a trans woman who want to have their belief that they are a woman validated by being naked in a space with real women. Seems odd to me , as being naked will only highlight the very obvious fact that they aren’t a woman, but who knows how their mind works.

That “incidental” remark really showed this nasty little person up for what they are.

Well I am an “incidental” woman too, and if I was naked in a spa and a bearded man, even one with a tiny penis , walked in there would certainly be an incident and I would hope all the other incidental women would join in.

the difference is consent
if you go to a mixed sex sauna then you know upfront and are consenting to seeing dicks. if you do not want to see dicks you do not go to a mixed sex sauna

if you got a ladies only sauna and see a dick then that is without consent and should be indecent exposure. Now though the flashers just need to declare they are ladies and its all good in the (man)hood

There's a huge difference between a mixed-sex space and a single-sex space social space in which people are naked. If I am expecting the latter, I don't want men there.

I meant to add at that point in my life I wasn't really comfortable being naked around others but I bit the bullet since it was normalized being in the company of other biological females. From a practical perspective it was preferable to manky hostel showers all the time. From a cultural perspective it was enriching (and the architecture beautiful) although I hope I didn't impose myself. I definitely worried I might be intruding and sought reassurance from staff prior.

That's probably the only way to beat them. When a bearded lady wants to book then give him the option of specific dates and have only male workers move with him to each area. Want a laze in the jacuzzi? Time for Fred the worker to 'man' the jacuzzi room. Booked a massage? Fred is on massages for the hourly slot bearded lady is booked. It'll cost having agency workers but he won't get his kicks and will be pissed off seeing just other blokes everywhere. Won't take long til he gives up and moves on to another place. Business will need to take a temporary hit but they may survive.

What a fucking creep

@Cakencookieobsessed

I'd avoid Germany then as a holiday destination, it's normal to swim and sauna etc naked, nobody bats an eyelid. The hotel I stayed in last year it was 12 and up too, mixed

I remember reading a really fascinating book about historical spa/bath house traditions around the world. It included Nordic, central European e.g. Hungarian, east Asian e.g. Japan and Korea and Middle Eastern e.g. Turkish and Arabic practices and rituals.

I used hammams when backpacking in Hungary, Turkey, the Middle East and Morocco and they were fabulous, especially when staying in hostels with variable facilities and unreliable hot/warm water (generally fine in the heat but sometimes you just wanted a good soak and scrub). The cheapest, no-frills spas were actually the best. Meticulously clean, authentic with good facilities including invigorating scrubs and massages. I went alone and was very conscious of being respectful and following protocols.

I feel so sorry for this business, its employees and customers.

Good photo on the DM.

Also, why do women keep being asked to justify doing things they have always done?

If it doesn’t matter why isn’t this character going to a mixed nude/men only spa?

Of course they care. The only reason most women would be nude in a public spa is because its female only. Lots of people go to these places, and why shouldn;t they?

Washington state is a bit bonkers like that. I suspect it’s the crazy from California rising…

This is one of the US states that is currently incarcerating men in women's prisons, Kara Dansky writes about it in her book:

Male convicted rapists are being permitted to be housed in women's prisons with vulnerable women, many of whom have already suffered tremendous abuse at the hands of men. A man who goes by the name of Princess Zoee Marie Andromeda Love, who was convicted of raping a twelve-year-old girl, is being housed in a Washington state women’s prison and has allegedly had sexual intercourse with a female inmate (which, if true, legally constitutes rape). His placement in the women's prison is in accordance with the official policy of the Washington State Department of Corrections.

They clearly don't give a shit about women in general.

As for the “incidental woman” nonsense - that’s like saying anyone who ever dressed as a pantomime horse is more of a horse than Red Rum.

@Annaissleeping I totally agree - majority of people going to these spas are usually Koreans who want to continue to live their traditional lifestyle where going to the spa is simply part of a normal everyday life. These places are already very inclusive as they allow Western women who cant speak the language and very often don't know all the cultural implications, rituals, norms of behaviour etc.

I wonder if this place will simply close and re-open somewhere in predominantly Asian area of town with Korean only signage, so no westerners would even know its there.

Yes, I’ve noticed that too.
Interesting how some “progressives” can shift their focus so easily according to the newest ideology and all of the sudden other minorities don’t matter.

Can’t peel a kiwi without thinking about “her”.

I went to Finland before the pandemic and learnt a bit there about how much saunas are part of the Finnish culture. Finns go daily. They are where community bonds are formed. Political meetings happen there, business meetings. My guide said (respectfully) that British people don't get it. They have spirits of the sauna and folklore connected to them going back thousands of years. It's part of their mental health care system in a way, it's good for you physically too. Babies get born in Finnish saunas. It's where they wash.

This thread might not be about Finland but I think we need to be careful about dismissing something that has huge cultural importance to others. I suspect Korean spas are similar. And who even goes? Elderly women, new mothers, babies, young children. This is not the 'go and have a spa day' situation that gets thrown out on Mumsnet when someone is stressed and over worked, where you get an overpriced massage and some lukewarm bucks fizz.

Judges just interpret the law and this judgement was pretty much inevitable, given State law. It's the fault of the state's law-makers, not the judge.

That’s close to me sister. I wonder if she would pop down - she’s blind and has a pointy white stick (and taught small children for many years).

She is raging about all this.