Bearded femme gains legal access to female only nude spa

"but anyone getting nude in a public spa probably doesn't care. Who even goes to these places??"

Anyone who wants to use the sauna to get clean?
The sweating and exfoliating - and the health benefits for your skin - works much better when your skin is uncovered.

Many people think it's far more hygienic to sit naked on a towel rather than inside a wet swimming costume (and that you shouldn't introduce that extra moisture into the atmosphere of the sauna/ the wood) which is why swimwear is actually banned from saunas in some places.

I hate the idea of going to a British sauna where swimming costumes are required, so never do.

Here is the article. ‘They fling the doors wide open for you’: why America’s lesbian bars must be saved | Pride | The Guardian.

Unless I am very much mistaken (there's a first time for everything) Milvich has been making quite the name for Milvich as TRA.

Several days ago, there was an article in The Guardian about why lesbian bars are important and, in the accompanying photograph front and centre, was an individual wearing fishnet tights who looks exactly like Milvich.

Chinny reckon.

He should - Fatwoawygtfosm

This gains them nothing it's just smashing up what women have for the sheer joy of destruction.

Transwomen do not gain the right to use the 'naked lady spa' women just lose the right to have the spa.

Women are going to self exclude and the spa will likely go broke/ close down.

Embarrass is probably the least of it.

Control. Dominate. You can't stop me, you can't keep me out, you have to let me see you naked or surrender to me and leave. Gosh what a lot of power for those into coercive control and abuse. It might range from 'I'm beautiful and being me and I don't give a fuck if I've destroyed your enjoyment or access because behold the wonder of me expressing myself' to intentional, but whatever.

Then there's the 'you're beautiful when you're angry darling' ones, who love the hand off sexual assault, control and power to smirk and look and be inappropriate in ways that make women deeply uncomfortable but can do very little about other than leave, and who love seeing women react to their power.

Then there's the ones who are getting off on it, let's be honest: the cameras in toilets, holes cut in doors, phones under doors, the ones who share on social media the wanking in rooms where the know women have their knickers down, it's ridiculously naive to pretend there's no group of males of all identities and genders who do this to women.

The thing is, it doesn't really matter what's going on between the ears of the male who's just asserted his dominant right to do his thing and overturn women's consent. The woman still has the choice of accept the loss of her space and make the best of the crumbs he's left her, or to leave. Particularly if she lacks the privilege to be able to just try and carry on and ignore him.

But these guys will be complaining about that.
They specifically want to embarrass women

Even here in Germany there are sex-segregated saunas.

Korean women do. It's not for men. The Korean women's Spa I used to go to in Korea was a hive of advice, help, fun and stuff. Not the same with a man in there.

Women shown again that all spaces are owned and controlled by men, and if they want to use a space in which they are vulnerable, then they must do it while permitting male use of their body.

Whether that's for validation or other reasons is entirely up to the male, there's no boundaries unless he actually physically assaults someone (and then not much chance of it getting through court.) Women can co operate or lose all access.

And we wonder why girls are transitioning to escape having to grow up and be a woman.

While separate sessions are the most inclusive option, they work best in large facilities where there are plenty of staff who can choose which clients they will work with and where there is enough demand to have separate mixed, women and men's days . I am sure there are plenty of spas and saunas in Seattle that welcome people of any gender, just as there were many waxing places in Vancouver that welcomed transgender clients when JY insisted on going to one run by a beautician who specialised in waxing women. This comes across as a deliberate attempt to go to a particular spa and is more about enjoying exercising power over staff and other clients. At what point do the needs of Orthodox Jewish and Muslim women and other women who want single sex spaces get considered?

There were.

Now there are two separate sets of spas for men.

Any woman who doesn't happen to like this will self-exclude. I suspect these spas will lose a lot of business. Some might go under. Pity they have no recourse for suing to reclaim those costs from the misguided courts.

I’ve been to quite a few women only naked saunas/steam rooms.

I have no idea what the men get up to but the women just enjoy the relaxing, there might be chat, usually between friends rather than strangers, but they’re not pick up places, women aren’t ogling each other. They are often used by pensioners (in my experience) and having anything other than a towel would be uncomfortable.

Maybe men and women understand nudity differently. I’ve never seen these spaces to be about exhibitionism or sex, just women soothing aching bodies, unself- conciously.

Being relaxed and accepting of oneself in a place like this (which is a form of cleansing with showering etc) does NOT mean it’s ok to have men in their however they identify.

If the judge could not refuse on the basis of the law, this is exactly why the Equally Act needs to be updated to say biological sex. Because these men just cannot stand being told ‘no’ and will force themselves into every female space.

Pretending that it's all exactly the same doesn't make you look sincere, honest or like someone with a point.

@StephanieSuperpowers You've put your finger right on the RSOH Pious Fraud point, there

He’s obviously getting sexual kicks from this. It’s a shame the business will suffer

I find the kind of people saying that if you consent to be in a naked women-only space, you should also consent to be in a naked mixed space very interesting. Why attempt to gaslight women by pretending that you think that all naked spaces are the same? You know it's not the case for the vast majority of women. If you have a case to make that everyone should be in all spaces for lots of very good reasons, make your case and argue your point. Pretending that it's all exactly the same doesn't make you look sincere, honest or like someone with a point.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Thanks for the correction.

Even more infuriating though. Imagine being a woman of colour there. Terrifying.

Ugh, what a horrible bloke. I can't help hoping that if he does take advantage of this spa then any women there will be over 80 or that he'll be met with a scene like this one:

If you are a man I do not want to see your genitals unless (1) I have specifically consented to do so and (2) we are romantically involved.

So, for the hard-of-thinking: no romance keep it in your pants.

Re Germany, it's not the case that everyone is naked. There are still women's days (Frauentag) at some saunas/baths, some people wear towels or swimsuits, others don't care and go naked but they are IME predominantly male.

Off topic but this actually sounds amazing!

Maybe that’s the role of men. Men’s only spaces should make a deliberate point of saying “Halt there! Who is this fine lady who doth pretend to be a man and enter our space! Thou art clearly a most womanly woman who does not belong in here! We have never seen a more feminine human with such alluring femininity and we are offended that thou thinketh we would be fooled!” Then have them smack them on the arse, wolf whistling as they go and send them on their merry way glowing with affirmation and validation.

You made me spray my coffee everywhere! Thanks for the laugh!

I'm now off to change my top....

No one ever seeks their validation by demanding to be excluded from male spaces, do they? They never get upset because they went into a male space and no one cared, the men in there just saw a gender non-conforming male in there with them and shrugged and got on with their lives. There’s never a news story about a poor trans woman whose identity wasn’t affirmed by being kept out of a male space, it’s always, always about not being able to get into a women’s space and it’s always, always a space where women are vulnerable.

Maybe that’s the role of men. Men’s only spaces should make a deliberate point of saying “Halt there! Who is this fine lady who doth pretend to be a man and enter our space! Thou art clearly a most womanly woman who does not belong in here! We have never seen a more feminine human with such alluring femininity and we are offended that thou thinketh we would be fooled!” Then have them smack them on the arse, wolf whistling as they go and send them on their merry way glowing with affirmation and validation.

Would that be enough, do you think? Or is it possible that getting to see naked ladies is also part of that validation, per chance, for er…reasons?😡

I read up on him/her (whatever) and they have been very inspired in their coming out by that Alok person - I can see the similarities.

Yeah, it kind of shows they're not gender dysphoric and there's another motivation, doesn't it?

Mind the GAP.