Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
9
AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 08/06/2023 19:30

ArabeIIaScott · 08/06/2023 19:09

Is this a transman? Because the Guardian is using male pronouns for what they are calling, in their headline, 'Teenage girl'.

'The jury heard that George, who was wearing a tracksuit with his hood up, drove Hughes around the Great Orme, the headland by Llandudno.
“I caught a glimpse of him at one point, then my face got pushed away,” she said, explaining that George pushed her away. She considered it “strange behaviour” and never saw him again.'

That's a witness testimony about what happened between her and "George" -whom the defendant was pretending to be. That's why they are using male pronouns, because at the time the witness thought she was meeting a man/boy.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 08/06/2023 19:26

@IwantToRetire I was answering to "what was different about this case".

I understand and agree with your points about rape or deception and I don't support OP's faux innocent stance of "what is there to prosecute" .It's obvious that a crime HAS been committed and what that crime is.

All that being said, the case is also easier to prove/prosecute and I seriously doubt there will be any surprises at the verdict. That does not diminish the crime committed, or the impact on the victim. I suppose it does show my cynicism and low expectations from CPS though.

RoseslnTheHospital · 08/06/2023 19:21

@ArabeIIaScott that's a summary of what the witness said in court, who used the name George and "he" because that's how she knew the defendant at the time.

IwantToRetire · 08/06/2023 19:20

Yes. So why on earth use male pronouns for her?

Because its the Guardian.

ArabeIIaScott · 08/06/2023 19:19

Yes. So why on earth use male pronouns for her?

RoseslnTheHospital · 08/06/2023 19:19

No it's not a trans man. It's a feminine presenting woman who was 19 at the time of the offences. She has specifically stated not to have a trans identity. She seems to have built an online character as "George" and then used that character to contact these teenage girls in that persona. From the reported details it seems fairly clear there was deliberate and intentional deception.

IwantToRetire · 08/06/2023 19:15

Is this a transman?

Or part of the deception towards a heterosexual woman.

Withouth wanting to be flippant because this is serious, would the trans community claim George as trans?

ArabeIIaScott · 08/06/2023 19:09

Is this a transman? Because the Guardian is using male pronouns for what they are calling, in their headline, 'Teenage girl'.

'The jury heard that George, who was wearing a tracksuit with his hood up, drove Hughes around the Great Orme, the headland by Llandudno.
“I caught a glimpse of him at one point, then my face got pushed away,” she said, explaining that George pushed her away. She considered it “strange behaviour” and never saw him again.'

IwantToRetire · 08/06/2023 19:03

"The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent."

So in this instance it cant be a rape case.

But I do see from googling (which I missed at the time) is that there is a call for a new law to be called "inducing sexual activity by deception"

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/sex-lies-and-law-reform-when-should-we-criminalise-sex-by-deception-/5114821.article

Clymene · 08/06/2023 19:02

Are there any incidents of transwomen being prosecuted for 'stealthing'? Because the only time I can remember this offence ending up in court is when the victim of stealthing commits assault like this one.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-jailed-attacking-trans-woman-24375389

It goes without saying I hope that I utterly condemn this man for assault.

littleripper · 08/06/2023 18:58

Because the perpetrator admitted it all in texts so it was easy to prosecute. Men rarely feel guilt, shame and remorse after sexual assault.

Backstreets · 08/06/2023 18:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

IwantToRetire · 08/06/2023 18:54

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 08/06/2023 18:43

Probably because it was easier to build a case .

Nowhere does the OP imply this is what is being questioned.

Just so misreads what the case is about. That's why it is called sex by deception.

The comment disrespects what has happened to the woman in this case.

It also fails to understand the crime of rape is something different, and is about consent.

Which doesn't mean I am not as angry as anyone else by both the police and the CPS failing to effectively prosecute rape.

But to bring that in here is whataboutery.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4696625-sex-by-deception-consultation

Sex by deception - consultation | Mumsnet

Just posting reminder about this consultation. This closes December 19th https://www.cps.gov.uk/consultation/consultation-deception-gender-section-ra...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4696625-sex-by-deception-consultation

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 08/06/2023 18:43

BigShoutyRaven · 08/06/2023 18:29

I think the OP is trying to point out that of all the sexual assaults that are reported to the police, this one is the one that the CPS chose to take to trial. What is different about this one? Is it just that the perpetrator is female? It's certainly not about another woman getting raped because that happens all the bloody time and the police and CPS rarely bother their socks over it.

Probably because it was easier to build a case .

QueenHippolyta · 08/06/2023 18:42

It's absolutely despicable. Sex by deception is always wrong, illegal and non-consensual.But to take advantage of someone's disability to do so is horrible.

I can't feel sorry for these self-hating young lesbians because using another person for sex like that is vile.

IwantToRetire · 08/06/2023 18:30

Sex by deception is something that TRAs are trying to say should be abolished.

I wonder why?

So yes it is wrong. Its worng whoever carried out the deception.

What is disturbing is there have been more than a few cases of women being prosecuted for this.

Is it part of the increase in the number of young women who dont want to be seen or think of themselves as lesbian.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 08/06/2023 18:30

My sympathy lies with the victim.

BigShoutyRaven · 08/06/2023 18:29

I think the OP is trying to point out that of all the sexual assaults that are reported to the police, this one is the one that the CPS chose to take to trial. What is different about this one? Is it just that the perpetrator is female? It's certainly not about another woman getting raped because that happens all the bloody time and the police and CPS rarely bother their socks over it.

Igmum · 08/06/2023 18:19

This is just evil. Deliberately manipulating those poor kids. OP YABVVU this is appalling.

JacquelinePot · 08/06/2023 18:18

Sex by deception is still a crime, isn't it? However hard Stonewall campaigns, they haven't managed to get that one removed from the statue books...yet

piedbeauty · 08/06/2023 18:18

Jesus. How would you feel if you thought you were having sex with a man and they turned out to be a woman?? It's sexual assault.

The victim didn't consent to sex with a woman.

TrueScrumptious · 08/06/2023 18:14

It’s obvious. It’s sexual assault.

RhosynBach · 08/06/2023 18:14

You seriously can’t understand?

RoseslnTheHospital · 08/06/2023 18:12

Because sex without genuine consent is a crime. Obviously.

Taking advantage of a girl who is effectively blind without glasses is especially despicable.