Can someone explain to to me why this has gone to court? Teenage girl pretending to be a boy.

I go interrupted so am going back to what I started to type.

Cases of sex by deception when it is a trans woman and a biological male dont get prosecuted because very few men would admit that they had been deceived.

In the same way as many men dont report being raped (for different reasons than women not reporting).

However in the US, and I think there was a case here, men have used the sex by deception as "mitigating circumstances" where their response to the deception is violence.

There were cases in the US where this was accepted as being a plausible reaction, ie the male legal system related to men who feel they've been duped, lashing out.

However, TRAs were concerned that if this was accepted in the legal system that it was deception for a trans woman to not reveal that status, would in fact acknowledge that it was a deception to say that a trans woman is biologically female.

This is why TRAs started lobbying for trans people not to be made to reveal their actual sex, because to do this means they are having to acknowledge they haven't if fact changed sex.

Does anyone remember all those surveys and studies group financed by that well known funder who is always helping to push the trans agenda.

In fact there was a very interesting thread on FWR some time ago, when I was just a reader rather than a contributor, and because of some of the links posted or ... the thread got deleted.

I remember it more because it was the first time I had really thought about the concept of sex by deception rather than someone lying about their marital status, or whether they had had a vasectomy, but in relation to trans men and women.

Yes, this!

Wasn't there a case on Jeremy Kyle? It was very disturbing obviously she should be prosecuted but equally they need to get their male rape cases prosecuted also

Men arnt why should women be

This well written letter from the Gay Men’s Network to the CPS is about sex by deception and is worth reading.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6200252604e9795287de2ada/t/636a7c64ebf018723719f151/1667923047685/CPS_Response_Branded.pdf

This is sooo effed up and weird and it's not the first time it's happened either... Wasn't their a case about 15 years ago where a girl tricked her friend into thinking she was a boy that would only communicate by text... Absolutely bizarre and horrendous.

I think it might be more difficult for a man to pretend to be a woman in this kind of scenario.

The reason men who say they are women don't get charged and convicted is because they stick to the story that they are women throughout any investigation.

The police and the CPS will not dispute their claim to actually be women because they have been heavily stonewalled. Even the most egregious cases will not be called men. Instead they may stop being 'women' and start being the third gender, AKA 'this individual rapist' after there has been a fuckup over prison placement.

Georgia Bilham (allegedly) and Gayle Newland both pretended to be men to dupe women into sex but neither of them continued to pretend to be men when faced with prosecution. I find that really interesting.

Yes there are legal precedents for rape by deception. The UK cases on wiki are:

1. The Spycops scandal from 1968, over 4 decades, when 140 male police officers infiltrated activist groups and at least 20 of them formed relationships with female activists, sometimes going as far as setting up second homes and having children with them, all in the name of undercover policing. Helen Steel was a victim of this and was instrumental in revealing the scandal:

None of those men were prosecuted for rape, sexual offences, or any other offences.

2. A case from 2015 (Gayle Newland) that is very similar to this case - a woman duping women into sex by pretending to be a man, while making no claim to actually be a man. She was sentenced to 6 1/2 years in prison.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-40668960

3. An appeal in 2017 by a serial rapist against one of his convictions. He duped a woman into sex by claiming he had had a vasectomy and later admitted that he had lied. He won his appeal, the court said that lying about fertility did not negate consent to sex. All his other convictions remain, he's still a serial rapist and the quashing of this particular conviction made no difference to his life sentence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53511729

So the only actual conviction so far in the UK for sex by deception is of a woman who did a very similar thing to Georgia Bilham.

While I can't find any examples of men pretending to be women in order to rape them, there are plenty of examples of men pretending to be many things with the intention to sexually assault/rape women and girls. They pretended to be Cops,taxi drivers, gay/gay couple , disabled (physical impairments and/or learning difficulties) and even a ghost(and yes he was convicted).

The mind boggles.

I can't understand why only women are criminalised for this.

Fair point.

This. Are you related to the defendant OP?????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

Yep.

Clearly the dynamic between a male pretending to be a woman and a female pretending to be a man is very different.

It does make me wonder why she didn't just say the magic words like so many men do when with faced with prosecution for a sexual offence.

Maybe she feared being sent to a men's prison.

Maybe she realised from the whole way the case was progressing that actually everyone does know what a woman is, which is why this case progressed to court when the vast majority of rape and sexual assault cases don't get that far.

If the deception is of a man by a trans woman then I suspect partly it will be about not reporting.

There have been other cases where man who have made false promises to women have been prosecuted.

Fair enough for direct quotes, but seems odd to even use the name George without putting it in quotes, and the editorial uses 'him' even when clearly referring to someone the jury/court knew to be a woman.

I think they're afraid to misgender even in this situation. Which is surely quite insulting to trans people.

Sex by deception is rape or serious sexual assault (the latter in this case because women don't have penises).

I can understand why women are criminalised for this.

I can't understand why only women are criminalised for this.

You can't understand why women are criminalised for this? Really? That's very worrying.

This isn’t the only sexual assault case being prosecuted…..it’s one of thousands. It’s only in the news because it is a bit unusual.

I cannot understand why women are criminalised for this.

Why shouldn't they be?

Stealthing can also apply to not wearing condoms when previously agreeing to do so

Stealthing is the intentional removing of a condom during sexual intercourse without the consent of the sexual partner. The offence is an example of ‘conditional consent’; a non-consensual act against the conditions of consent given.

In 2019, Lee Hogben from Bournemouth was sentenced to 12 years in prison for raping a woman in a hotel. Although consent for sexual intercourse was given by the victim, it was on the condition that a condom was used. The victim was a sex worker and not only were the terms of ‘conditional consent‘ for intercourse agreed upon beforehand, but they were also clearly stated on her website. Mr Hogben removed the condom being used during sex without the victim’s consent, an act known as stealthing.

https://www.reeds.co.uk/insight/stealthing-and-conditional-consent/

I cannot understand why women are criminalised for this

Just because there are other issues I cannot comprehend someone not understanding why what she did is disgraceful.

I haven't noticed any cases either. Both of them should have been prosecuted.

"You threw words around like 'deceit'. You accused her of raping you. There is no culpability on your part. She is a woman, that is how she identifies."

Judge Knott added: "Frankly, if you weren't prepared to take the time to know more about her that is on you.