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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I terfed at work

34 replies

OhCareerSuicide · 06/06/2023 17:59

Obvious name change for this.

So. It’s pride month, and at this mornings department weekly meeting we had the LGBT network delivering a slot on what pride month means, why it’s important to all LGBT people and a bit about rights for LGBT people globally. All fine.

The side chat on Teams got a bit political, and headed in the direction of government policy and discrimination of trans people, conversion therapy, and self ID. I was a little uneasy as I think this is quite political and not a good topic for a professional setting. But then it got worse - a (presumed) male colleague (I don’t know them) weighed in that the gov policy was scapegoating and ‘pretending it’s a women’s safety issue’ and suggested that it ‘appeals to a certain type of reactionary’.

My phone went crazy with messages and as a person with some responsibility I wrote a very polite, balanced and neutral message to the director saying that this was a one-sided view and I didn’t think it appropriate. My concerns were acknowledged but the org have declined to do anything about it. They have made statements about other (imo milder) forms of discriminatory talk before, but it seems that women are fair game.

So now I know. My org will not back me. And I’ve put myself out on the parapet (albeit confidentially). Ho him.

OP posts:
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Circumferences · 09/06/2023 08:02

Is the director male by any chance?
Do you know for sure nothing has been said to the male colleague in private, or did the director actually say nothing will be done about it?

Wildlynx · 09/06/2023 06:57

You can join SEEN (Sex and Equality Network or something similar) if you are ALB. Maybe some resources on there that may give some credence (a it's as gov network, albeit one that's currently as bit secret squirrel!)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-service-staff-networks/seen-network
It's GC and still in early days

SEEN Network

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-service-staff-networks/seen-network

LoobiJee · 08/06/2023 23:25

Sorry, my mistake, the Peter Daly article was about the Forstater case. It’s called “Morality Plays: The Lessons of Forstater” and is dated 26 July 2022.

I’ve done a quick re-read of it, and it isn’t exactly “entry level”. Might be something to follow up with rather than a first article.

I would advise against suggesting your boss reads mumsnet.

LoobiJee · 08/06/2023 23:16

OhCareerSuicide · 08/06/2023 23:03

Sorry that should have been Hadley’s articles. Silly autocorrect.

I did actually suggest MN but he found that suggestion quite funny. I sort of feel a couple of articles would be the best for him.

How about the article for HR professionals about Group Think in progressive organisations which Alison Baillie’s solicitor wrote (on Linked In) after she won her case?

I may be misremembering the details but the article was very useful for use in a work context.

OhCareerSuicide · 08/06/2023 23:03

Sorry that should have been Hadley’s articles. Silly autocorrect.

I did actually suggest MN but he found that suggestion quite funny. I sort of feel a couple of articles would be the best for him.

OP posts:
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 08/06/2023 23:02

Screamingabdabz · 08/06/2023 22:27

Just send him a link to this section!

I feel FWR might be a bit of a shock for the newly T**f-curious! Maybe ease him in more gently, or the OP will find him rocking in a corner 😉

Top work, OP. Which issues do you think will most resonate with him? At the risk of stereotyping, for a lot of men, it’s TW in women’s sport but, if it’s freedom of speech, maybe the Forstater case? The SexMatters website has helpful summaries on a lot of issues, including info on current law.

Hotfeetcoldfeet · 08/06/2023 22:40

Well done for speaking up! The first time is hard but it gets easier, and it makes it easier for others to stand up too. You did a brave thing!

Confusedmumannoyedson · 08/06/2023 22:31

Well done for speaking up @OhCareerSuicide

Screamingabdabz · 08/06/2023 22:27

OhCareerSuicide · 08/06/2023 22:01

So I actually had a rather wonderful conversation with my boss. This is an entirely new area for him, but he asked for some background reading. Anyone got suggestions? Maybe Harley’s stuff? Just covering the basics really.

Just send him a link to this section!

Florissant · 08/06/2023 22:18

BettyFilous · 06/06/2023 19:35

Thank you for standing up on this point @OhCareerSuicide . We have to start speaking up. You weren’t in the wrong.

Agreed.

OhCareerSuicide · 08/06/2023 22:01

So I actually had a rather wonderful conversation with my boss. This is an entirely new area for him, but he asked for some background reading. Anyone got suggestions? Maybe Harley’s stuff? Just covering the basics really.

OP posts:
Vebrithien · 06/06/2023 21:03

Well done @OhCareerSuicide and thank you for speaking out.

We all raise our voices with you.

BettyFilous · 06/06/2023 20:55

I am not a lawyer, just someone whose role in a previous org touched equality stuff. If anyone who knows EA2010 well is lurking, please do jump in.

Crouton19 · 06/06/2023 20:38

@OhCareerSuicide I cant remember the name but googled it at the time and it looked like a generic gender training and content provider. Nothing of substance on their website other than a lot of bios of the staff, none of whom had done much in particular but had funky names and pronouns.

OhCareerSuicide · 06/06/2023 20:23

@Crouton19 don’t tell me - it was inclusive employers?!

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OhCareerSuicide · 06/06/2023 20:22

Oh that had me in stitches @StrictlyAFemaleFemale - I can’t claim credit for the title. That was a work friend who shares my view. More around needing a support group with the same name.

I’ve been skirting terf at work territory for a while now and this was the final straw. A few weeks ago the women’s network was captured. And a bunch of people left.

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Crouton19 · 06/06/2023 20:21

Well done OP! Someone has to be the first in every organisation. I've made complaints to our D&I team about that part of the intranet getting too political and that it should be limited to work-related matters. They also included some v dodgy statistics which i knew to be wrong but someone else might find alarming. Needless to say, all their copy came from some external provider and had been paid for.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 06/06/2023 20:12

I saw your title and sang "and I liked it" a la Katy Perry.

Bloody well done. 10 points to Griffindor.

I'm sure most people agree with you.

DeflatedAgain · 06/06/2023 20:10

Well done!

crunchermuncher · 06/06/2023 20:04

Thank you for standing up - solidarity! 💐

ScrollingLeaves · 06/06/2023 20:04

Well done, this was brave of you and will surely make some difference.

OhCareerSuicide · 06/06/2023 20:02

Thanks @BettyFilous this gives me something to work with. We are a public sector organisation (I think we are an ALB) so it would be good for me to look up the PSED

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Screamingabdabz · 06/06/2023 19:53

BettyFilous · 06/06/2023 19:33

If you wanted to push things gently it might be worth reminding them of duties to respect ALL protected characteristics, or some equivalent phrase.

Yes, I was thinking the same. If you’re in the public sector, there is a public sector equality duty (“PSED”) to balance the needs of all protected groups and promote good relations between them (paraphrasing - do check wording). They need reminding that women are protected under the sex PC and their PSED means they should promote good relations, not allow a slanging match in the meeting chat.

Great response - and not allowing the ‘slanging’ of women to be dominated by those at the top of the privilege tree too!

Bellablahhole · 06/06/2023 19:46

Delurking to say thank you Flowers. Each time a woman puts her head above the parapet to stand up for women and our rights, our collective voices become stronger. This issue can't be ignored by any organisation/ employer, it's not going away. Keep terfing (as safely as you can)!

BettyFilous · 06/06/2023 19:35

Thank you for standing up on this point @OhCareerSuicide . We have to start speaking up. You weren’t in the wrong.

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