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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Trust hosts link to WPATH Standards of Care on its website

32 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 15:27

https://www.cntw.nhs.uk/services/northern-region-gender-dysphoria-service-specialist-service-walkergate-park/information-for-professionals/

Cumbria Northumbria, Tyne and Wear. 'Northern Region Gender Dysphoria Service' website.

'We aim to create gender affirmative change with passion'

This is then 'information for professionals' page.

Links to WPATH's standards of care, version 8.

Which contains the 'Eunuch' section positing 'eunuch' as a gender identity, and including link to the Eunuch Archive.

NHS Scotland conducted an investigation after the same 'Standards of Care' were uploaded to one of its internal websites, but it seems NHS England - or at least some trusts - are still referring to them.

https://www.scotsman.com/health/investigation-launched-after-documents-published-by-scottish-nhs-in-error-stated-that-eunuch-should-be-recognised-as-formal-identity-3734369

Archived page here

https://archive.is/nS2i7

Information for professionals

What is gender/gender dysphoria? The concept of gender has many different facets including, but not limited to, gender identity, gender role, gender expression and biological sex. Each of us will have our own unique experiences of how we define ourselv...

https://www.cntw.nhs.uk/services/northern-region-gender-dysphoria-service-specialist-service-walkergate-park/information-for-professionals

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 20:50

Yes, you're right, Gail. I forget. 🙄

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GailBlancheViola · 05/06/2023 19:52

They don't have a conscience to look at Arabella, they can't have otherwise they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 18:26

Anyone destroying the healthy bodies of children for money should be looking hard at their conscience.

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GailBlancheViola · 05/06/2023 12:07

Marci Bowers should spend the rest of their days staring at the four walls of a prison cell.

ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 10:54

https://www.city-journal.org/article/affirming-deception

'Just two weeks ago, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH)—a U.S.-based promoter of “gender affirmation” that now recognizes “eunuch” as a valid childhood “gender identity”—was still insisting that Europe’s only change was a decision by health authorities to conduct “more studies” and gather data. But with evidence of the actual changes increasingly hard to deny, WPATH has now finally had to reckon with reality. On November 25, it chose to air its grievances—and tacitly concede its previous disinformation campaign—about Europe’s change of direction when it criticized England’s National Health Service.'

Wee bit of history on the NHS/WPATH

Affirming Deception

An unexpected concession reveals dishonesty in the American gender-medicine establishment.

https://www.city-journal.org/article/affirming-deception

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 10:04

I see a Rapid Response to that review criticises SoC v 8:

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/4/e048943.responses

'It appears WPATH expects readers to faithfully accept potentially biased judgments of the literature rather than confidently submitting SoCv8 to open scientific scrutiny. SoCv8 could have been much better: its evidence base and recommendations cannot yet be relied upon.'

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/4/e048943.responses

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 10:00

'The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Standards of Care Version 7 (SOCv7)30 represent normative standards for clinical care, acting as a benchmark in this field.31 Globally, many national and local guidelines are adaptations of, acknowledge being influenced by, or are intended to complement WPATH SOCv7,30 despite expressed reservations that WPATH SOCv730 is based onlower-quality primary research, the opinions of experts
and lacks grading of evidence
.36 In the UK, an advocacy group worked to incorporate WPATH SOCv730 into national practice.37 WPATH SOCv730 informs National Health Service (NHS) gender identity clinics38 and guidelines produced by the Royal College of Psychiatrists (without use of GRADE).39 No
CPGs were available from the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE), Scottish Intercollegiate Guidelines Network (SIGN), British Association of
Gender Identity Specialists, or medical Royal Colleges, although the Royal College of General Practitioners issued a position statement on gender minority/trans healthcare in 2019.40 Assessing quality of international
CPGs such as WPATH SOCv7 30 has practice implications for the NHS 38 and private sector.'

Apologies the formatting is all a bit wonky. Bolding is mine.

This is from 'International clinical practice guidelines for gender minority/trans people: systematic review and quality assessment' in BMJ

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/4/e048943

Some more quotes. This review was scathing about the quality of CPGs, including WPATH:

'WPATH SOCv7 cannot be considered ‘gold standard’'

'WPATH SOCv7 originated nearly a decade ago from a special-interest
association; diagnostic criteria and CPG methodology have since changed. ...it is puzzling to have found so little else, maybe suggesting CPGs for gender minority/trans people have been driven by provider-interests rather than healthcare needs.'

'Clinicians should be made aware that gender minority/trans health CPGs outside of HIV-relatedtopics are linked to a weak evidence base, with variations in methodological rigour and lack of stakeholder involvement. While patient care plans ought to take into account the individual needs of each gender minority/trans person, a gap appears to exist between clinical practice and research in this field.78 Clinicians should proceed with caution, explain uncertainties to patients and recruit to research'

That is all of course relating to SoC v 7. Has there been any assessment of SoC v 8 from NICE or NHS?

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/4/e048943

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 09:44

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

Helleofabore · 05/06/2023 09:40

ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 09:34

Can anyone confirm that is actually genuinely Marci Bowers, calling people 'moron' on Twitter? I'm shocked!

https://twitter.com/marcibdoc/status/1559395681877430272

It does seem like their account.

They don’t come across as well balanced.

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 09:34

Can anyone confirm that is actually genuinely Marci Bowers, calling people 'moron' on Twitter? I'm shocked!

https://twitter.com/marcibdoc/status/1559395681877430272

https://twitter.com/marcibdoc/status/1559395681877430272

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 09:32

More of Marci. It's quite staggering that this person is the President of an organisation that has set itself up as an authority on 'gender' medecine.

'Yes, puberty blockade is fully reversible' tweets Bower.

Bowers then calls those who question the assertion that puberty blockers are reversible 'boneheads' and repeatedly tells people (including at least one trans person) to 'meet a trans person' in response to civil questions.

https://twitter.com/marcibdoc/status/1447634798042763266?cxt=HHwWhMCq3bmLhJcoAAAA

https://twitter.com/marcibdoc/status/1447634798042763266?cxt=HHwWhMCq3bmLhJcoAAAA

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 09:25

Marci Bowers (pres of WPATH) responds to a question about links to the Eunuch Archive site in WPATH's SoC:

'As president of WPATH, why do the latest guidelines link to eunuch .org, a forum of fetishists who post thousands of child rpe and castration prn stories, as a "resource"? The guidelines say "eunuch" is an innate gender identity that children can have:'

with :

'nice conspiracy theory. try reading the Bible regarding eunuchs. you’ll find 59 references so the information is most certainly available.'

https://twitter.com/marcibdoc/status/1618441702506889216

It's not a 'conspiracy theory' if it's true, Marci. In the SoC, here is the relevant section, copied and pasted (I've redacted the web address for obvious reasons). This is page 90 of the WPATH SoC, linked to from the NHS site in the OP :

'While there is a 4000-year history of eunuchs
in society, the greatest wealth of information
about contemporary eunuch-identified people is
found within the large online peer-support community
that congregates on sites such as the
Eunuch Archive (WEBSITE REDACTED), which was
established in 1998. The moderators of this site
attempt to maintain both medical and historical
accuracy in its discussion forums, although there
is certainly misinformation as well. According to
the website, as of January 2022, there have been
over 130,000 registered members from various
parts of the world and frequently over 90% of
those reading the site are “guests” rather than
members. The website lists over 23,000 threads
and nearly 220,000 posts. For example, two threads
giving instructions for self-castration by injection
of different toxins directly into the testicles have
about 2,500 posts each, and each has been read
well over one million times. Beginning in 2001,
there have been 20 annual international gatherings
of the Eunuch Archive community in Minneapolis
in addition to many regional gatherings elsewhere.'

And what on earth does the bible have to do with anything?

https://twitter.com/marcibdoc/status/1618441702506889216

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GailBlancheViola · 05/06/2023 08:46

In such thrall to this ideology that they can't/won't see what is staring them in the face, these are supposed to be intelligent professional people. Well, when the shit truly hits the fan they need to face severe criminal consequences.

WarriorN · 05/06/2023 07:56

Well, that's the trust that Ritchie is suing...

ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 07:31

NHS Leeds and York make a couple if references to WPATH, regarding advice on treatment paths.

https://www.leedsandyorkpft.nhs.uk/our-services/gender-identity-service/

Gender Identity Service - Our Services

https://www.leedsandyorkpft.nhs.uk/our-services/gender-identity-service

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 07:01

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/06/2023 23:29

I remember reading about some NHS trusts that extended their Annexe B guidelines to ensure that convicted sex offenders claiming to be women could be placed on women's wards. That's when I realised that predatory values had gained a foothold in certain trusts and were evidently being actively promoted

Christ. Reminds me of the Scottish government, in the GRR discission, being asked to add amendments to stop rapists gaining a grc, and them declining.

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ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 06:59

AmuseBish · 04/06/2023 23:10

I agree. Yet again I'm gobsmacked that this is carrying on, still, out in the open for everyone to see. They must think it's fine?

Jon Arcelus of Nottingham NHS trans Centre is co chair of WPATH SoC v8.

The NHS itself seems to hold different positions, sometimes contradictory ones.

I've read a statement that said they don't refer to WPATH SoC, they just use it as a reference - I hope I'm remembering that accurately ... on my phone so can't Google to check!

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/06/2023 23:29

I remember reading about some NHS trusts that extended their Annexe B guidelines to ensure that convicted sex offenders claiming to be women could be placed on women's wards. That's when I realised that predatory values had gained a foothold in certain trusts and were evidently being actively promoted

AmuseBish · 04/06/2023 23:10

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 20:58

I cannot imagine anyone working in this field ('gender' medecine) is unaware of WPATH's newest Standards of Care (version 8), or what they contain.

The NHS by signposting to WPATH's SoC are apparently tacitly endorsing 'Eunuch' as a gender identity.

I agree. Yet again I'm gobsmacked that this is carrying on, still, out in the open for everyone to see. They must think it's fine?

Boiledbeetle · 04/06/2023 22:59

There are going to be so so so many books written about this time in history in a future where we are all long gone. I wonder what they will make of this bit!

They did what? Noooo! Seriously? Were they all mad in the early 21st century?

Boiledbeetle · 04/06/2023 22:56

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/06/2023 20:56

is it incompetence or evil do you think?

If your job relates to children then you are obliged to understand (horrible as it is), that there are people who get sexual gratification by being in a position of power over children, and it's really quite plausible that they'd look for ways to manifest that power like, say, causing someone to be castrated.

Strategic evil incompetence

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 21:48

It's also the repetition of things, MrsOverton.

NHS Scotland had a big hooha over this.

Why didn't NHS England learn from that?

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/06/2023 21:12

Every day I become more cynical about what's happening in the NHS. I know that these people don't represent the majority of staff but the institutional failure to challenge such unacceptable groups and practices is such a worry.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/06/2023 21:03

evil it is then

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