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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What is a woman: Daily Wire documentary on for limited time for free

463 replies

AnotherDayAnotherView · 02/06/2023 10:39

https://twitter.com/stevenmarkryan/status/1664437068838363141

Available for 24 hours

https://twitter.com/stevenmarkryan/status/1664437068838363141

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MrGHardy · 05/06/2023 08:36

TraumatisedGooner · 05/06/2023 07:05

I certainly can’t speak for all people that are pro trans rights but… I believe gender is a social construct. I don’t think that’s an unusual point of view either.

I think you are confusing promoting an ideology with 'rights'. I doubt there are any people here who think trans people shouldn't have rights. The point is that males having access to female spaces isn't a right. What you really meant to say in that statement was not "trans rights" but "trans demands".

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 08:35

He's working with Governors of a number of states to bring in legislation to ban 'gender affirming care' for children. They've been successful in Texas (I think would need to check States)

Is he also working with those governors to ensure that children suffering from the co-morbidities associated with gender dysphoria (autism, mental health problems, trauma) have adequate care and support? It seems that these states are very good at banning, but not so good at supporting access to any kind of healthcare.

(See also banning abortions while cutting funding to support care of actual live children).

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/06/2023 08:28

PurpleBugz · 05/06/2023 07:51

Oh I'm sorry is noticing and highlighting differences in how men and women are treated differently silly? Highlighting a clear and current example of how women's voices are ignored but men tend not to be?

It's not silly. To call the highlighting of oppression silly is to be part of the oppression

Indeed. I agree with you Malaga, but yet you still have to use denigrating language.

MalagaNights · 05/06/2023 08:28

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 08:13

You might be right - many people find feminism uncomfortable and a bit boring.

Also very easy to produce a ranty video. More difficult to do the boring grunt work of creating policies that E.g. provide accessible health care that meets ethical standards (no need for a judicial review if you just don’t provide any care at all or even have a framework for such a thing in your country because that would be socialist!!)

He hasn't just produced a 'ranty video'.

He's working with Governors of a number of states to bring in legislation to ban 'gender affirming care' for children. They've been successful in Texas (I think would need to check States)

He's also directly targeting and revealing the practice of children's hospitals to get them to stop the mutilation of children. Again with some success.

He's working with parents to challenge school boards and get elected to challenge gender ideology in schools.

He's bringing a number of individual law suits against people illegally providing kids with cross sex hormones.

Look, you may disagree with him on many many other things but trying to criticise his work on this because he's not a feminist is just stupid.

He has resources and reach. Do you want this stopped or not?

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 08:26

nolongersurprised · 05/06/2023 08:16

Have you actually seen the documentary?

I disagree that it was “easy”, he is a skilled interviewer and a good debater.

these skills look easy but can be hard to emulate.

I’m not arguing that he isn’t good at what he does - his YouTube channel is very popular and he is good at creating content that gets clicks.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 05/06/2023 08:25

TraumatisedGooner · 05/06/2023 07:05

I certainly can’t speak for all people that are pro trans rights but… I believe gender is a social construct. I don’t think that’s an unusual point of view either.

Ooh, are we getting closer to you explaining your beliefs?

berating people on the internet for not sharing your beliefs when you can’t actually explain them is certainly an…interesting position

ohdelay · 05/06/2023 08:24

nolongersurprised · 04/06/2023 22:26

First they came for the children - sterilising, chemically castrating them - and I did not speak out because the other people speaking out weren’t exactly the same as me.

Spot on. Or maybe I didn't speak out because I was a goose stepping cultist who wanted to medicalise and sterilise huge swathes of future generations. Affirmation is sterilisation btw. Hormone blockers before puberty starts create non functional micro genitalia.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/
Weird that our broken NHS with its massive waiting lists are doing this to kids when they know they are destroying healthy tissue and not creating functioning genital replacements. First do no harm?

nhs.uk

Gender dysphoria - Treatment

Treatment for gender dysphoria aims to help people live the way they want to, in their preferred gender identity or as non-binary.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment

MalagaNights · 05/06/2023 08:20

Yeah Matt Walsh isn't a feminist. I don't think anyone is going to argue that he is.

Both Matt Walsh and some feminsts think biological sex is a reality and you can't change it.

Both factual.

Some feminsts don't seem able to cope with the fact they agree with an anti feminist.

Matt Walsh doesn't seem bothered that he agrees with some anti Matt Walshers.

nolongersurprised · 05/06/2023 08:16

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 08:13

You might be right - many people find feminism uncomfortable and a bit boring.

Also very easy to produce a ranty video. More difficult to do the boring grunt work of creating policies that E.g. provide accessible health care that meets ethical standards (no need for a judicial review if you just don’t provide any care at all or even have a framework for such a thing in your country because that would be socialist!!)

Have you actually seen the documentary?

I disagree that it was “easy”, he is a skilled interviewer and a good debater.

these skills look easy but can be hard to emulate.

ohdelay · 05/06/2023 08:14

MrGHardy · 05/06/2023 07:41

That is because conservatives like him think one's 'gender', i.e. one's personality, interests, etc. should match one's sex, while gender ideology prescribes matching one's sex to one's personality, interests, etc. and that the latter is oh so special, especially the more un-normal it is.

Strange take. I think he believes modern gender is bullshit and can be covered by personality which is individual and unique. Like most older people he would have grown up where the word gender was another word for biological sex. Boys who like dolls are still boys. It's actually pretty sane compared to the incoherent gender waffling.

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 08:13

PurpleBugz · 05/06/2023 08:00

Which is possibly why people listen to him....

You might be right - many people find feminism uncomfortable and a bit boring.

Also very easy to produce a ranty video. More difficult to do the boring grunt work of creating policies that E.g. provide accessible health care that meets ethical standards (no need for a judicial review if you just don’t provide any care at all or even have a framework for such a thing in your country because that would be socialist!!)

nolongersurprised · 05/06/2023 08:06

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 08:00

Also I think Walsh's belief that on average boys and girls are different in their interests is more generally agreed with by the general public than the GC belief that it's just an oppressive social construct, so his approach was always going to be more appealing.

it’s the underpinning of gender ideology and the idea that you can be born in the wrong body.

Have you watched him on Dr Phil? He comments on how when a young boy says he wants to be a girl, what the boy means can be that he wants to play with the dolls’ house and that, of course, it’s ok for boys to play with the dolls’ house.

NotTerfNorCis · 05/06/2023 08:04

The fundamental problem here is that:

The right-wing have found genderism a useful tool to attack the left, because it's so obviously ridiculous.

Left-wing 'woke-bros' have found right-wing criticism of genderism a useful tool to attack feminism, because they can accuse feminists of allying with the right.

It's a tricky situation for feminists.

nothingcomestonothing · 05/06/2023 08:03

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 07:58

Matt Walsh has a YouTube channel that has videos with titles like “how feminism destroys marriage”

Whether he just wants more clicks or is sincere, he really, really doesn’t have any interest in finding common ground with feminists.

And once we've stopped lying to and sterilising children, we can have a good long discussion about that. I'm not going to argue about what colour curtains are best, when the house is on fire.

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 08:00

Also I think Walsh's belief that on average boys and girls are different in their interests is more generally agreed with by the general public than the GC belief that it's just an oppressive social construct, so his approach was always going to be more appealing.

it’s the underpinning of gender ideology and the idea that you can be born in the wrong body.

PurpleBugz · 05/06/2023 08:00

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 07:58

Matt Walsh has a YouTube channel that has videos with titles like “how feminism destroys marriage”

Whether he just wants more clicks or is sincere, he really, really doesn’t have any interest in finding common ground with feminists.

Which is possibly why people listen to him....

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 07:58

Matt Walsh has a YouTube channel that has videos with titles like “how feminism destroys marriage”

Whether he just wants more clicks or is sincere, he really, really doesn’t have any interest in finding common ground with feminists.

PurpleBugz · 05/06/2023 07:51

MalagaNights · 05/06/2023 07:45

I don't think feminists realise how silly and petty they look to the world outside of feminism when they argue that Matt Walsh stole their ideas and they said it first.

Of course all movements start with small groups with focused interests who are paying attention to a phenomenon while generally other people are not. They push to share this concern because they want other people to notice and take action, and inevitably some organisation or personality breaks through and makes the issue real publically.

Also I don't think the Daily Wire gives a damn whether they were first or not, because they are the most successful, so the feminists look irrelevant even in their complaining.

Also I think Walsh's belief that on average boys and girls are different in their interests is more generally agreed with by the general public than the GC belief that it's just an oppressive social construct, so his approach was always going to be more appealing.

Even Matt Walsh would acknowledge that there are exceptions to the on average differences.
He admitted even he likes scented candles!

Oh I'm sorry is noticing and highlighting differences in how men and women are treated differently silly? Highlighting a clear and current example of how women's voices are ignored but men tend not to be?

It's not silly. To call the highlighting of oppression silly is to be part of the oppression

MalagaNights · 05/06/2023 07:45

I don't think feminists realise how silly and petty they look to the world outside of feminism when they argue that Matt Walsh stole their ideas and they said it first.

Of course all movements start with small groups with focused interests who are paying attention to a phenomenon while generally other people are not. They push to share this concern because they want other people to notice and take action, and inevitably some organisation or personality breaks through and makes the issue real publically.

Also I don't think the Daily Wire gives a damn whether they were first or not, because they are the most successful, so the feminists look irrelevant even in their complaining.

Also I think Walsh's belief that on average boys and girls are different in their interests is more generally agreed with by the general public than the GC belief that it's just an oppressive social construct, so his approach was always going to be more appealing.

Even Matt Walsh would acknowledge that there are exceptions to the on average differences.
He admitted even he likes scented candles!

MrGHardy · 05/06/2023 07:41

NotTerfNorCis · 02/06/2023 17:49

I've started watching it. I'm sure I'll agree with most of it, but the start makes me uncomfortable. Men can't understand women, and girls need a lot of emotional support while a boy is content with a BB gun. In his own way, Walsh is as fond of gender stereotypes as the TRAs.

That is because conservatives like him think one's 'gender', i.e. one's personality, interests, etc. should match one's sex, while gender ideology prescribes matching one's sex to one's personality, interests, etc. and that the latter is oh so special, especially the more un-normal it is.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 05/06/2023 07:41

TraumatisedGooner · 05/06/2023 07:05

I certainly can’t speak for all people that are pro trans rights but… I believe gender is a social construct. I don’t think that’s an unusual point of view either.

That's the gender critical view as well. The difference is gender critical people think these constructs, whether you align to the one you were "assigned" at birth or not, are unnecessary and limiting.

So some questions for you - why is it necessary for people to adjust their bodies to match this social construct? And why is which social construct you feel you most align with more relevant than your body sex, which is fixed and to which people impose gender constructs that may not be the one you chose, for sport, or prison, or anything else really?

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 07:30

I certainly can’t speak for all people that are pro trans rights but… I believe gender is a social construct. I don’t think that’s an unusual point of view either

I am pro trans rights. I’m also pro women’s rights and recognise that women require specific rights and services because of their sex, and regardless of their identity, and that this necessarily excludes people whose sex is male (regardless of whether they may suffer discrimination or require services on the basis of any other protected characteristic E.g. sexuality, race, disability, gender reassignment).

The ability to acknowledge conflicts of rights is the basis of any framework that protects rights.

Given his diatribes against feminism on YouTube, Matt Walsh is not concerned about protecting women’s rights as most British people would understand them.

MalagaNights · 05/06/2023 07:25

Backstreets · 04/06/2023 19:19

The difference is stark! Adult Human Female screenings have been cancelled because of violent, threatening, screaming males.

But when TRAs go to confront Matt Walsh they do so with a "good sir let me win you over with my reason" attitude, as evidenced in the videos where two trans speakers stood up to question him. Or even in the Dr Phil episode clips shown in the film. When he just goes "no, this is nonsense" they don't rage and abuse, they just get this pathetic :[ expression on their face.

WONDER WHY.

This is nonsense.

Matt Walsh now has to have personal and 24 hour security around his home because of the death threats continuously made to him and his family.

He's had to cancel events because the level of threat has been so high.

He receives vile violent threats daily. He has had his phone and his computer hacked and they have his emails going back years.
He's been doxxed over and over with his address shared.

The Daily Wire offices have to have constant armed guards.

TraumatisedGooner · 05/06/2023 07:05

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 06:36

Somewhere there is a Venn diagram that illustrates this, but I can’t find it:

Gender critical Feminist: Gender is a harmful social construct. Sex cannot be changed.

Gender ideology: Gender is innate. Sex can be changed.

Right wing: Gender is innate. Sex cannot be changed.

The documentary seems to be proposing the third idea, so is not helpful to anyone challenging gender ideology, as it endorses the social constructs that lead to people thinking that gender non conforming = in wrong body.

I certainly can’t speak for all people that are pro trans rights but… I believe gender is a social construct. I don’t think that’s an unusual point of view either.

Merrymouse · 05/06/2023 07:00

Nothing feminist about gendered roles.