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Gender Wars - Channel 4 - 10pm tonight

443 replies

chouxchoux · 30/05/2023 20:43

With the brilliant Kathleen Stock.

Anyone planning to watch?

(Apologies if there’s an existing thread I’ve missed).

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WarningToTheCurious · 31/05/2023 11:44

*Gwenffrewi

WarningToTheCurious · 31/05/2023 11:43

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:32

It was interesting that Gina Gwenffrewi said they looked for a gender neutral option for toilets at a pub. It was good to hear that on the doco, that confirms that some males do that.

Gina Gweffani - against showing Adult Human Female and pro platforming Katy Montgomery at UoE.

IcakethereforeIam · 31/05/2023 11:43

KJ does seem to like that shade of orange. I was wondering if some of the books, possibly even that booze, were chosen because they matched!

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:43

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:32

It was interesting that Gina Gwenffrewi said they looked for a gender neutral option for toilets at a pub. It was good to hear that on the doco, that confirms that some males do that.

It would have been good to hear Gina explain in more detail what, or whom, Gina was afraid of.

TinselAngel · 31/05/2023 11:40

Somebody with more time and inclination than me could look further into Katy Jon's EDI trading (grift)

www.genderagenda.net/

TinselAngel · 31/05/2023 11:38

Gosh there's some complete nonsense on that website. Katy Jon must have a lot of free time, unlike us boring middle aged muggle women.

www.katyjon.com/purple/

TinselAngel · 31/05/2023 11:35

My 5 minute google which enabled me to discover Katy Jon had a trans widow Aldo turned up this quote
"“I had surgery (of a somewhat unconventional kind, even for trans people) in 2016”"

The mind boggles.

www.katyjon.com/gender/

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:34

TinselAngel · 31/05/2023 11:30

Being a "moderate" seems purely to be a matter of identifying as such from what I can see.

I suspect that label lasts until Went has someone use the wrong pronouns. I could be wrong.

TinselAngel · 31/05/2023 11:34

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:32

It was interesting that Gina Gwenffrewi said they looked for a gender neutral option for toilets at a pub. It was good to hear that on the doco, that confirms that some males do that.

I think the fragrant Gina may have been telling porkies there.

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:32

It was interesting that Gina Gwenffrewi said they looked for a gender neutral option for toilets at a pub. It was good to hear that on the doco, that confirms that some males do that.

TinselAngel · 31/05/2023 11:30

Being a "moderate" seems purely to be a matter of identifying as such from what I can see.

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:29

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:23

I've never heard of Went before, I don't think.

Someone who acknowledges that they are harming women yet continues to do so in fact strikes me as far worse than someone who genuinely is so lost in delusion they are unaware of the effect they may have on women.

Went has been around on and off.

Went is sometimes put onto panel discussions or is interviewed by mainstream media.

They have been consistent. They hear it all, yet just continue to claim whatever women’s rights they want as far as I can remember. All that matters is Went-self.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 31/05/2023 11:26

If KJ is still using women's spaces, even after realisation that KJ's presence may cause actual terror to women, then KJ doesn't strike me as in any way harmless or moderate.

I agree and that's my point - "moderate" is a relative term and anyone can think they're moderate.

Women present the way we do partly because we are smaller and less physically threatening than most men. If a big bloke presents to women in the same way as most women do, he's going to be scary.

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:25

waterlego · 31/05/2023 11:19

Yes @KalimbaMoon. Just been rolling my eyes at this one. Proof that many of these people simply do not understand the gender critical position at all. Which is either because they’re not very bright, or because they have never even tried to engage with and understand the GC position. They can’t possibly have read any decent GC Twitter threads, blogs, essays or books- including those from Stock herself- if they think we’re against gender non-conformity.

In contrast, most GCs I know have at least read up on and tried to understand the TRA position. Not least because we want to have a fair and proper discussion and debate. The GC side definitely has the bigger brains on board! Plus people like me who don’t have giant brains but at least have the capacity to understand that gender ideology is deeply regressive and that Stock being gender non-conformist in her presentation is not hypocritical to her GC views.

It is when I see the type of thinking in this tweet that I really do think that some people now really think gender is just a ‘gender non conforming’ label. They seem bereft of critical thinking and superficially signal they are up to the minute.

TinselAngel · 31/05/2023 11:24

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:23

I've never heard of Went before, I don't think.

Someone who acknowledges that they are harming women yet continues to do so in fact strikes me as far worse than someone who genuinely is so lost in delusion they are unaware of the effect they may have on women.

Quite.

KalimbaMoon · 31/05/2023 11:23

Yes waterlego it struck me that by saying Kathleen is fighting against gender non-conformity, this tweeter has profoundly misunderstood the GC position. We embrace gender non-conformity, for goodness sake! They need to do their research.

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:23

I've never heard of Went before, I don't think.

Someone who acknowledges that they are harming women yet continues to do so in fact strikes me as far worse than someone who genuinely is so lost in delusion they are unaware of the effect they may have on women.

Helleofabore · 31/05/2023 11:21

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:13

If KJ is still using women's spaces, even after realisation that KJ's presence may cause actual terror to women, then KJ doesn't strike me as in any way harmless or moderate.

Show quote history

I believe we have been down this path before with Went haven’t we? Went does have reasonable views on some issues, but I believe that Went still will continue to access women’s safe spaces and insist on being included as a woman.

It has all been done before. And we shall obviously continue to do it all again. Males will acknowledge they are still male, yet insist on things that transgress the boundaries of women and children anyway.

All the reasonable discussions in the past have had the effect that many women have realised that it is the ‘having of discussions’ that these male’s want. Just as much as there is no debate. Some male people are all about the discussions, it is validating. Just like the women who have them are also using pronouns and what exactly have these male people offerred in return? Maybe to not abuse the women they are talking to usually. Nothing more usually.

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:21

Oh, it's her.

I see.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/05/2023 11:21

That woman seems a bit dense.

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:21

Deciding that a woman who very much is not a 'trans man' and has written a whole book on how she is not a 'trans man' is in fact a 'trans man' strikes me as fucking unbelievably fucking rude.

Respect our identity, but we'll decide what yours is.

waterlego · 31/05/2023 11:19

Yes @KalimbaMoon. Just been rolling my eyes at this one. Proof that many of these people simply do not understand the gender critical position at all. Which is either because they’re not very bright, or because they have never even tried to engage with and understand the GC position. They can’t possibly have read any decent GC Twitter threads, blogs, essays or books- including those from Stock herself- if they think we’re against gender non-conformity.

In contrast, most GCs I know have at least read up on and tried to understand the TRA position. Not least because we want to have a fair and proper discussion and debate. The GC side definitely has the bigger brains on board! Plus people like me who don’t have giant brains but at least have the capacity to understand that gender ideology is deeply regressive and that Stock being gender non-conformist in her presentation is not hypocritical to her GC views.

Gender Wars - Channel 4 - 10pm tonight
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 31/05/2023 11:14

AgathaAllAlong · 31/05/2023 10:51

Sad to me that even women cannot fathom a woman having an original voice and a protector role without her being an object of sexual attraction.

Humans like to have sex with other humans

people really do seem to struggle with the fact that we’re animals

alongside that we all have amazing minds. The two things coexist

ArabeIIaScott · 31/05/2023 11:13

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 31/05/2023 11:11

I wonder if Katy Jon is still using women's spaces, despite their realisation that this could scare/frighten/alarm women?

I quite liked Katy Jon but I'm not convinced that her position is tenable. I mean everyone thinks they're the reasonable middle of the road person and just because no-one has monstered Katy Jon (as far as I know?) doesn't make her more middle of the road than Kathleen Stock. Kathleen Stock is also quite willing to discuss and debate with people who disagree with her, she continued the Cambridge debate without being derailed even after being mightily insulted by Kass. Most of the people who disagree with her don't want to argue with her at all, they just want to shut her up.

Kathleen Stock said "we are where we are" but no-one said "we are where we are in the middle of all this toxicity because of #nodebate" (and the longer the lack of debate the nastier the battle once the lid finally comes off) But perhaps that was implied by the rest of the show.

If KJ is still using women's spaces, even after realisation that KJ's presence may cause actual terror to women, then KJ doesn't strike me as in any way harmless or moderate.

NotTerfNorCis · 31/05/2023 11:12

KalimbaMoon · 31/05/2023 11:03

There are tweets declaring Kathleen Stock to be a trans man. Just because she has short hair and doesn’t wear make-up - crikey. Way to let the mask slip and tell us you believe we should all be conforming to outdated gender stereotypes.

Yes this is one of the problems with genderism. It reinforces gender stereotypes. A woman who steps outside them is no longer a woman. It's regressive at heart.