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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender Wars - Channel 4 - 10pm tonight

443 replies

chouxchoux · 30/05/2023 20:43

With the brilliant Kathleen Stock.

Anyone planning to watch?

(Apologies if there’s an existing thread I’ve missed).

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RoobarbandCustud · 03/06/2023 22:09

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TinselAngel · 03/06/2023 11:43

Article by Jo Bartosch with quote from a certain Trans Widow spokesperson...

twitter.com/jo_bartosch/status/1664905810290397184?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

Datun · 02/06/2023 10:51

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 02/06/2023 10:44

Does Katy Jon have impeccable leftist credentials? that seems to be important to some people for some reason

Ah. Probably.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 02/06/2023 10:44

Datun · 02/06/2023 04:24

I so don't get that. Complimentary about a male who violates women's boundaries but scathing about Posie Parker.

Does Katy Jon have impeccable leftist credentials? that seems to be important to some people for some reason

Datun · 02/06/2023 04:24

TinselAngel · 01/06/2023 18:18

Bindel has also fallen for Katy Jon

I so don't get that. Complimentary about a male who violates women's boundaries but scathing about Posie Parker.

WarriorN · 01/06/2023 19:58

Aja shared a film of Bindel today saying that transwomen who dated lesbians could be seen as lesbians, as asked by Paris Lees from 10 years ago.

I personally like Bindel. I appreciate the producers using KJW to argue against some TRAs' stand points; KJW really slagged Emily Bridges off the other day - it moves the debates along. Wouldn't say great. Especially since reading a few points raised about KJW on this thread.

TinyTopknot · 01/06/2023 18:46

TinselAngel · 01/06/2023 18:18

Bindel has also fallen for Katy Jon

The Labour supporting feminists have always been more than happy with Hayton and also Went it seems.

I MUCH prefer the line in the sand, no bollocks approach of KJK.

Appalonia · 01/06/2023 18:37

Really good episode about this on The Mess we're in, including the revelation that Whittle has MS, which has most probably been caused by taking testosterone for so long...
https://twitter.com/GPair10/status/1663798659425681409?s=19

https://twitter.com/GPair10/status/1663798659425681409?s=19

KalimbaMoon · 01/06/2023 18:24

Datun · 01/06/2023 18:02

Sorry KalimbaMoon, you said 'stuffed' but I read 'fucked'.

😂 same difference really!

I’m glad you think the tide is turning. I do worry about how all this will pan out in future, considering just how many seemingly intelligent people are fully captured by gender ideology. At least programmes and films are being made now and people are starting to talk more openly. I think Adult Human Female covered the issues much more thoroughly than Gender Wars though - I’d love that to be shown on Channel 4.

TinselAngel · 01/06/2023 18:18

Bindel has also fallen for Katy Jon

Gender Wars - Channel 4 - 10pm tonight
WarriorN · 01/06/2023 18:14

Public perception has to change.

This is really important.

A public health campaign around the issues with the whole idea of medical transition.

Laws that clearly define the issues with self ID.

All decanted clearly into schools. Spell it all out for teachers.

Real mental health support.

WarriorN · 01/06/2023 18:10

This will not go away.

No it will never go away. For the reasons you list but also, the cat is out of the bag. It exists. All of it. The medicine, the specialist research hubs, the faculties, the charities and endless streams of money. It's an industry, and it's linked to porn. That will never go.

The ideology even has hymns now.

Datun · 01/06/2023 18:02

Sorry KalimbaMoon, you said 'stuffed' but I read 'fucked'.

Datun · 01/06/2023 18:01

KalimbaMoon · 01/06/2023 17:34

So we’re stuffed then, basically? Whether they fracture our skulls at a rally or go for a friendly pint with us, they’re going to ride roughshod over women’s rights? I wonder if all hope now rests on the Equality Act discussion on June 12.

No, we're not fucked.

There is no law that says men cannot access women's spaces, and there never has been.

Because it wasn't considered necessary. Social condemnation was sufficient.

Twenty years ago if a man walked into the ladies behind a woman everyone would've felt entirely confident in calling him out. Oi, mate, that's the ladies.

People don't feel like that now. They're worried that they might be misgendering somebody, or falling into some kind of terrible transphobic trap that they can't navigate.

Public perception has to change. The public must become aware that no, women's spaces haven't magically opened up to a special cohort of men.

That women have just as much right as they always have had to single sex spaces.

The tide is already turning, with all manner of sports federations making rules to preserve women's sport.

The EHRC is going to provide guidance for schools. They also need to get rid of the training children have been having in gender identity.

And, of course, the more people talk about this, the more everyone feels emboldened to act.

I think what women like me are trying to say is that the men who want into those spaces, are not the ones who are going to help you prevent it.

However reasonable they may appear, that's not the goal.

WarriorN · 01/06/2023 17:58

TinselAngel · 01/06/2023 15:11

News just in showing, what a surprise, Katy Jon is exactly like all other Trans widows exes.

twitter.com/transwidows/status/1664272015124221954?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

Quelle surprise.

Clearly a lot of spin going on hence being so keen to be the Bellos approved reasonable transexual.

My eyebrows went to the mood re chatting in the toilet. Clearly aware of the boundaries broken.

nilsmousehammer · 01/06/2023 17:38

This will not go away.

Women are never going to just give up and submit to this small, noisy and fantastically entitled group of misogynists, and as the evidence stacks up higher and the outrage and public knowledge increases, pressure will build.

Eventually, there will be, in law, the boundaries that will force this very small percentage of males to respect the law and consequences because they will never respect women or women's needs.

We're already on very different ground than we were just a year ago. This will move only one way, but it may take a long time.

KalimbaMoon · 01/06/2023 17:34

So we’re stuffed then, basically? Whether they fracture our skulls at a rally or go for a friendly pint with us, they’re going to ride roughshod over women’s rights? I wonder if all hope now rests on the Equality Act discussion on June 12.

Datun · 01/06/2023 17:28

Good lord. Yesterday tinsel said please do not be grateful for crumbs, and she's absolutely right.

Who gives a flying fuck what men with a sexual fetish think about exactly which of them should or shouldn't be given access to women spaces?

We cant possibly be giving them house room just because they're not coming at us with barbed wire wrapped baseball bats.

I know it's something of a Hobson's choice, given on the one hand you've got idealogically captured zealots without a rational thought in their head claiming we're responsible for genocide and on the other you've got cynical, middle-aged males with a sexual fetish, who enjoy violating women's boundaries.

But what they think is completely irrelevant.

They're not making the laws and policies, they're not the head of the EHRC, or the Ministry of Justice, or sitting in parliament voting on laws.

And, of bloody course, they are willing to concede stuff like sport and rape refuges. It sounds sensible and like a concession. But it's only because they have no use of those spaces.

I still can't get over how Katy Jon Went actually thinks a concession is to stop talking while they are secretly hiding in the women's toilet 🙄

And yes, Debbie Hayton, very cleverly concedes all manner of things, except the one thing that Debbie wants, which is women's toilets. Debbie wrote the guidelines for schools when Debbie was teaching in a school which involves the children calling transwomen miss and males having access to the female loos. That's never been rescinded.

And yes, Debbie is so out of touch with what it means to be a woman, they think that women grade other women on the size of their breasts. The bigger the boob, the higher social cachet you have amongst your peers.

Have a think about why, exactly, a self-confessed AGP has concluded that the woman with the biggest breasts must be the envy of all her peers.

(Quite apart from anything else, has Hayton never even seen a cat walk?).

nilsmousehammer · 01/06/2023 17:21

You will never talk any of the male people in this situation into permitting female only spaces, services and resources to continue to exist.

And I just re read what I'd written - there it is in a nutshell.

Men believe they are the owners of the spaces and get to define what women are, what women may do and have, what needs women may expect to be met and which are unreasonable demands on the boss class with penises.

This is the issue right here.

Negotiating nicely is enabling this faulty, dysfunctional and highly prejudiced view of women. What is required is tough boundaries.

nilsmousehammer · 01/06/2023 17:16

You will never talk any of the male people in this situation into permitting female only spaces, services and resources to continue to exist.

The only 'compromise' that would ever be considered is how much ground women will cede (this time, salami slice tactics). What are men offering in this to women? Compromise involves BOTH SIDES.

Women have already compromised. It was called the GRA. Men have fucked it and women over comprehensively.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 01/06/2023 16:53

KalimbaMoon · 31/05/2023 16:06

If they won’t talk to us though, we’ll get nowhere. That’s why I think we’ve got a better chance of reasoning with someone like KJW than we do with someone holding a Decapitate Terfs banner.

The Decapitate TERFs crowd are very useful. They demonstrate what TRAs will do next if the "reasonable" TRAs don't manage to get women to capitulate.

TinselAngel · 01/06/2023 15:11

News just in showing, what a surprise, Katy Jon is exactly like all other Trans widows exes.

twitter.com/transwidows/status/1664272015124221954?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

JanesLittleGirl · 01/06/2023 14:52

ArabeIIaScott · 01/06/2023 14:39

Male fear - something is terribly wrong
Female fear - this woman is hysterical/prejudiced

Or:
Male fear - something is terribly wrong
Female fear - women have feelings?

ArabeIIaScott · 01/06/2023 14:39

Male fear - something is terribly wrong
Female fear - this woman is hysterical/prejudiced

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