Let Women Speak - a new song to extol the virtues and bravery of KJK!

Why should people have the right to lie on official documentation? No one else has that right, so in fact they have more rights than others.
And access to spaces "of their gender"? Where do you suggest women that can't be in spaces with males go? Or are they acceptable collateral damage in order to allow male people to get what they want?

They have all of those rights - based on their “gender”. Exactly as you wrote them….

Any and all gender rights should and do apply to transpeople.
Any males with any gender identity should have the same protected rights.
Any females with any gender identity should have the same protected rights.

They have the right to live as the gender they have transitioned to including things like having the right gender on their documents, access to healthcare like hormones etc and access to the spaces of their gender. The threat to that is activism from the gender critical side. In some US states some of these rights have been taken away e.g. the bathroom bill in Florida. They want to stop that kind of thing happening here.
You obviously don't agree with this cause but it is the cause they are defending.

Thank you for your concern but my DC are well versed in VAWG and against Black people for protesting. My DC are fully aware that protests and rallies may mean a punch or soup for a white woman, but worse for a Black woman or man as I have shown them the list of victims killed for simply being Black and going to BLM protests.

Im baffled as to why merely seeing and sharing a silly song has somehow morphed into accusations of having written the song or is somehow a reflection of what “sort of people” we are. It’s just a song about Posie Parker my DC saw online and shared with me and reflects someone out there’s perspective. It’s not my view or my DC’s view.

"So you're happy to talk about her only if it's praise. Cool."

How binary of you. There's only praise or dishonesty?

So you're happy to talk about her only if it's praise. Cool.

I literally have no idea whatsoever who the "two Oxbridge men" are.

That’s quite good! I was wondering if this thread was going to have any more songs, as it had sort of gone off on a tangent of criticising posters what posted songs they have seen rather than the songs themselves.

One has to wonder why.

How posh of you.

One doesn't need to wonder, I've explained it twice now.

I'm happy to talk about KJK, I'm just bored of the "we hate KJK" playbook as I said.

I also said I don't get into the dishonesty to and fro.

So that's my KJK limits.

I think the two Oxbridge men are directly relevant to KJKs Standing for women underlying messages because they are in support of identity being more important than sex aren't they?

What rights are they defending and what do they need defending from?

I support Posies right to speak even if I don’t agree with everything she says, quite often its the phasing of something that in principle I agree with but maybe not how she has said it

but thats just my opinion, there is no doubt however that she is very brave

and she is only someone I read about on mumsnet, there are also misquotes, or lies if you prefer, and distortions of what she has said…so it can be hard to get the truth sometimes

my understanding of how she works though is that it can be very off the cuff, it can be very easy for people to put a bad faith interpretation on whats said…like JKR for example

I haven't heard of the two Oxbridge men you mention and I haven't been following the Stock thing so no I have no thoughts. Is there a thread for that you can discuss it on? If you're bored of talking about KJK you don't have to be on the thread about her.

Well, we are all a bit bored of the "we hate KJK" playbook TBH.

What about these two Oxbridge men? Any thoughts?

How awful. There was very serious violence at that rally- one woman had her foot broken and another elderly woman had her skull fractured . A mob of angry violent men attacked a group of peaceful women

please speak to your daughter about violence against women

this….again

"I haven't read the tweet you're all discussing. Let's talk about something unrelated that nobody else on this thread has mentioned."

Sorry I don't really see how this is a bad faith interpretation I made. She said that if you're a man and you consider yourself a protector of women and whether you carry a gun or not, you should start using women's toilets. Is there some kind of contextual information as to why she mentioned guns? What's the relevance of guns? Are you saying it was a total non-sequitur? Why did she mention it?

I haven't actually read it. In my experience there is non stop dishonesty about what Kelly says so I don't waste time engaging with that to and fro.

The Oxbridge people in the public eye this week have been of greater interest, as this is where the rights campaigns are now playing out. Oxbridge men who just appear to be typical of generations of Oxbridge men who we've seen having great success in this country are the current vanguard and I think it's leaving most observers in a state of incredulity.

So, you admit that you have just perpetuated a bad faith interpretation of what she actually said.

Why? Because she was making a call, misjudged as it was, for those men, who wish to protect their families, to enter female spaces to show how ridiculous self ID is.

It was about the men who wish to protect their families. ‘Those who carry guns, OR DON’T.’

You have to be rather determined to portray someone as being hateful to post “And she said men should go into women's toilets with guns to protect them.”

And then when pointed out what she did say and the context pivot to saying ‘yes she didn’t actually say that, but she did mention guns… so that’s bad!!’ I am happy to post the longer transcript so that others can see the full context. Stripping the context to ‘And she said men should go into women's toilets with guns to protect them.’ is blatantly dishonest.

They're defending their existing rights I think, rather than asking for new rights.

Parker -is- blaming trans people for a homophobic attack on a kid in Ireland. It’s pretty bizarre that you’re unwilling to say whether you support that or not.

I'm not blaming any one for anything.

The two Oxbridge men at the centre of the campaign against professor Stock are indistinguishable from many thousands of Oxbridge men we are all familiar with and who have successful lives in this country.

Their claims that they are uniquely vulnerable now, despite same sex marriage, Stonewall Champions schemes, LGBT clubs, equality policies and so on, which didn't exist 20 years ago, due to their adoption of a trans or non binary identity, is bogus.

This isn't blame, it's simply a lack of agreement that they have anything much to worry about in this country.

flaffydaffy

What rights are trans people fighting for that they don't already have?

Claim of trans activists: people speaking out against trans people causes more hatred of trans people and this may lead to violence against trans people, possibly violence against other LGBT people as @TraumatisedGooner pointed out there is an overlap between transphobia and homophobia. A comparable phenomenon would be the increase in racist incidents after Brexit.

Claim of KJK that you are supporting: when trans people speak up for their rights, a lot of people disagree, may get angry and cause violence against trans people, and against other LGBT people due to the association. It would be comparable if for example there were violent racist incidents after the BLM protests and the response was "their demands are unreasonable so understandably there is a backlash".

These are two incredibly different things. One says that increased hatred of a group causes violence against that group and associated groups. The other says that a group campaigning for their own rights causes violence against that group and associated groups by people who disagree. The first one is a logical and demonstrable phenomenon. The second one is victim blaming, used to try to shut down campaigning by a minority group and in most situations isn't given any oxygen. To say they are the same claim is ludicrous.