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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kathleen Stock was on Good Morning Britain This Morning

241 replies

dunBle · 29/05/2023 07:34

although she got talked over by Ed Balls quite a lot. It'll be on ITV1+1 at about 7:40 I think until just before 8am.

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PurpleBugz · 29/05/2023 19:52

RavingStone · 29/05/2023 18:48

*flirtswithrhinos"

Brilliant post

Agreed. So hard to put that point into words for others and this does so perfectly.

@FlirtsWithRhinos can I steal your wording for a sort of leaflet I'm putting together for myself/friends/family to explain GC position?

RelaxingClassics · 29/05/2023 19:31

Anyone who starts their sentence with " I am telling you.." sounds like a fucking knob. "Oh ok then wise one".

KalimbaMoon · 29/05/2023 19:27

Wonder why Ed kept talking over Kathleen? Was he frightened that her sensible, reasonable point of view makes just a little bit too much sense? Quick, talk over her before she peaks the audience! Or was he fearing a backlash from his nearest and dearest? I can’t believe he tried to paint her as being on the “extreme” side. It felt like she was being given a ticking off for being a naughty gender-critical woman hurting people’s feelings. How mean of her to not let people be women if they want to be women. Listen up, Ed - it’s not Kathleen stopping men from becoming women. It’s that terfy old bigot known as Mother Nature. Reality matters in life and in law. Nothing is stopping people from presenting however they please. They just can’t change sex.

RoyalCorgi · 29/05/2023 19:25

If you interrogate Balls's position you can see the idiocy of it. He's saying that Stock's position - insisting that humans can't change sex - is extreme.

A moderate position, in his view, is knowing that humans can't change sex, but pretending that they can.

How can requiring people to tell lies be a moderate position?

Forwarder · 29/05/2023 19:22

@zibzibara Ed is looking for a middle ground. Maybe half a penis? Or only half of women have a penis?

Forwarder · 29/05/2023 19:21

The Guardian has misquoted her about children. She said something about Irreversible changes to children's bodies causes upset, upset to their parents. Note the comma.

The Guardian are truly scum promoting this stuff.

KS is so cool though isn't she? After all she's been through, still able to laugh at pompous mansplaining prats.

zibzibara · 29/05/2023 19:18

KS - it depends how you phrase the question. If you ask can a woman have a penis, most people say no.

EB - Yeah but I agree with that.

Did he mean that he agrees that women can have a penis, or that women can't have a penis? This part was unclear to me.

maltravers · 29/05/2023 18:57

She’s good isn’t she, smart and unflappable. I think many started off agreeing to treat TW as women like Ed wants (the local TW on my street didn’t pass, but she wasn’t interfering with my life - live and let live). But that wasn’t enough and the TRAs can’t help pushing for more - access to women’s spaces/sports, no women’s spaces where TW not included, TW on women’s wards, women to be referred to as “bodies with vaginas”, children to be given hormones etc. etc. now is IS interfering in my life. Now we have to draw a line in the sand and say No.

dapsnotplimsolls · 29/05/2023 18:57

I don't think Ed Jr will be happy about the penis comment ...

RavingStone · 29/05/2023 18:48

*flirtswithrhinos"

Brilliant post

MimiGC · 29/05/2023 18:48

Balls was arrogant, patronising and a terrible host, who kept talking over the guest who had given up her time to appear on his show. Kathleen has the patience of a saint and I don't know how she keeps her cool when she's constantly interrupted and often misrepresented. Looking forward to the C4 programme tomorrow.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/05/2023 18:42

EB - Someone who has transitioned and wants to be a woman, I think it's fine to call them a woman. I don't know why you don't want to allow them to make that choice

I realise there's no point in answering EB on this thread, but as this line typifies one of the bad faith arguments that gets flung arount by TRAs a lot I think it's worth providing the counter anyway.

No, Ed. It's not that I don't want to allow "them" to make that choice.

It's that the choice they want to make for themselves forces a new definition of womanhood onto all women whether we want it for ourselves or not.

Because the only way to believe that male people can be called women is if one believes that a woman, which I also am, is a woman not because of her body, with all that entails socially and physically, but because of something in her mind.

And if society belives that, it believes that woman's rights and protections, and indeed women's experiences, needs and political voice, are not shaped by the needs and challenges of the female-bodied half of humanity but by those who feel they have a female mind.

As a female-bodied person, I look at the history of my sex's fight to escape from the legal, social, intellectual, political and cultural margins where male people kept us, and to be recognised as complete, equal and worthwhile humans in our own right. To understand and define ourselves rather than accept the definitions men placed upon us based on what they observed and assumed. To tell our own stories in our own voices, not simply be the characters in narratives written from the outside by men. And I am not prepared to go back to Womanhood being something men decide for us.

So it's not that I don't want to allow them to make a choice for themselves, it's that the choice they want to make for themselves is also a choice they are also making for me, and it is that which I cannot accept.

WallaceinAnderland · 29/05/2023 18:42

BewaretheIckabog · 29/05/2023 18:15

Did EB really tell KS it’s complicated and she’s trying to oversimplify it?

He looked an idiot but then said women can’t have a penis. He clearly knows nothing about the subject.

Well quite.

"I'm telling you it's complicated"

To a woman who has literally written a book on the subject and was hounded out of her job and continues to face criticism for speaking truths on the subject.

So arrogant and patronising. Yet another man telling a woman what a woman is.

I love Kathleen's expressions in response to his statements 😂

At least he's on record stating that women don't have a penis so there's the upside.

BellaAmorosa · 29/05/2023 18:32

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 29/05/2023 13:13

During the interview, Kathleen made it clear she supports transgender people being protected by law and has no ambition to argue against the Equality or Gender Recognition Act.

However, she explained to hosts Ed and Charlotte Hawkins: “I think we need words to describe the differences between males and females because they matter socially across all sorts of domains.”

and this is the person Stephen Whittle et al think is too extreme to be featured on a channel 4 documentary. Loons

as for Balls, when what you believe is unmitigated bobbins you can’t listen to what other people think can you? That way lies disaster

The TRA have alienated and attacked their strongest allies among GC women - Prof Stock, JKR...just more proof of how nuts and destructive the whole movement is.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 29/05/2023 18:30

That was a man desperately trying not to look too hard at his beliefs wasn’t it?

’but my relationship with my son depends on me pretending that I believe some men are women. Please stop making so much sense Kathleen!’

Saucery · 29/05/2023 18:22

You don’t have to dig too deeply to find parents terrified that their children will fall out with them, do you?

Haywirecity · 29/05/2023 18:17

Maybe Ed believes everyone thinks like him because all his mates are in the Labour Party where men can be women, and women are extremists for questioning that?

BewaretheIckabog · 29/05/2023 18:15

Did EB really tell KS it’s complicated and she’s trying to oversimplify it?

He looked an idiot but then said women can’t have a penis. He clearly knows nothing about the subject.

dcbc1234 · 29/05/2023 18:06

WallaceinAnderland · 29/05/2023 13:12

Ah, now this makes sense

'One of the trans activists who heckled the education secretary Nadhim Zahawi on his visit to Warwick University is the son of Labour politicians Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper, it has emerged.'

https://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-videos/nadhim-zahawi-protest-warwick-tories/

Yes I remember that. They were demonstrating against him 'just because he is a Tory' from what I could make out. He had been invited by the University's Conservative Association to address them, and our wonderfully 'undemocratic children' of the Labour Party saw that as an opportunity to stand and chant.
Can anyone imagine any University Conservative Association being so uncouth, if the situation were reversed?
Dangerous anti-free speech loons in my former party. Free speech decides my voting from now onwards.

WallaceinAnderland · 29/05/2023 18:02

Every thing she said was clear and good. If Ed would only let her answer. He basically just interviewed himself.

Helleofabore · 29/05/2023 18:00

That last part where she came back because she wasn’t interrupted was very clear and very good.

BovrilMartini · 29/05/2023 17:57

Ed managed to get voted out in a very safe seat he was useless. His nickname in Morley was Mr Ed cause no one ever saw him

2Rebecca · 29/05/2023 17:57

He started the interview well and then just wouldn't accept that she should be able to voice the view that you can identify however you want but you can't actually change sex.

Iafontaine · 29/05/2023 17:51

thank you Baron and Wallace, what a mess of an "interview".

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