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Original poster

Can anyone point me to any stats on whether fully transitioned males (mtf) are any less violent than men as a group generally?

59 replies

Chamomileteaplease · 28/05/2023 13:53

I recently had the unfortunate and shocking, though sadly I know not unusual, conversation recently with a much-loved relative where I was called a terf etc etc.

We could barely talk about it because I didn't want to fall out with him.

But we started talking about men in women's spaces and although it is common sense that if you were to come across a man in a dress you know you would treat him with the same caution you would any other man. But a fully transitioned one? Do they lose any male aggression? Are we any safer around them? I imagine not but would appreciate any research/knowledge.

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AlisonDonut · 31/05/2023 16:59

And there's always this.

Can anyone point me to any stats on whether fully transitioned males (mtf) are any less violent than men as a group generally?
AlisonDonut · 30/05/2023 22:04

Ask your relative if removing this man's penis would reduce his heart, lungs, bones, muscles etc and what sort of reduction would make it 'safe' for the college girls to play against?

Can anyone point me to any stats on whether fully transitioned males (mtf) are any less violent than men as a group generally?
Original poster
Chamomileteaplease · 30/05/2023 21:04

I have come back and read the rest of the replies. Thank you everyone, it is really useful.

It would be interesting if the term transwoman only applied to those who had had full surgery. Would make life a lot easier with regard to discussion and response.

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 29/05/2023 10:09

It's worth pointing out to him that the terms "transgender", "trans" and "trans woman" no longer refer to someone who has had, or intends to have, surgery or treatment. It is a very broad term that ultimately boils down to "anyone who says they have a gender identity different from their biological sex".

This is the explanation of who is covered by the description "transgender identity" from the Scottish Hate Crime Act:

(a)a female-to-male transgender person

(b)a male-to-female transgender person

(c)a non-binary person

(d)a person who cross-dresses

Pluvia · 29/05/2023 09:29

OwningAllMyMistakes · 29/05/2023 07:55

maybe this isn’t the thread for this but how many women are violent and aren’t trans ?
how many more cases of child cruelty will involve women as the parent and their child being physically abused assaulted and subjected to horrendous attacks?
the recent Marsden case as one example and there are more lockdown proved to be a terrible time for vulnerable children and adults who needed monitoring and support at the worst time.
so let’s look at the statistics for violent women as well.

No, this is not the thread for your questions and if you persist with them you'll look as if you're attempting a derail.

Start a new thread and include in your opening post the data you want to discuss (actual statistics from a respected source) and evidence to support whatever theory/ ideas you hold. Posting vague inflammatory questions and accusations is unlikely to go down well here on a feminist board.

PonyPatter44 · 29/05/2023 09:07

OwningAllMyMistakes · 29/05/2023 07:55

maybe this isn’t the thread for this but how many women are violent and aren’t trans ?
how many more cases of child cruelty will involve women as the parent and their child being physically abused assaulted and subjected to horrendous attacks?
the recent Marsden case as one example and there are more lockdown proved to be a terrible time for vulnerable children and adults who needed monitoring and support at the worst time.
so let’s look at the statistics for violent women as well.

No, it's not the thread for it. Start another one.

I have met approximately 2 dozen transwomen in custody. All but one of them were sex offenders, and of the sex offenders, only two (that I can recall) had NOT committed contact offences.

Just to clarify, a contact offence is where the offender makes physical contact with the victim, by meeting them, touching them, or attacking them. Non-contact offences include things like possessing indecent images of children etc.

Signalbox · 29/05/2023 08:18

OwningAllMyMistakes · 29/05/2023 07:55

maybe this isn’t the thread for this but how many women are violent and aren’t trans ?
how many more cases of child cruelty will involve women as the parent and their child being physically abused assaulted and subjected to horrendous attacks?
the recent Marsden case as one example and there are more lockdown proved to be a terrible time for vulnerable children and adults who needed monitoring and support at the worst time.
so let’s look at the statistics for violent women as well.

Perhaps start a new thread.

OwningAllMyMistakes · 29/05/2023 07:55

maybe this isn’t the thread for this but how many women are violent and aren’t trans ?
how many more cases of child cruelty will involve women as the parent and their child being physically abused assaulted and subjected to horrendous attacks?
the recent Marsden case as one example and there are more lockdown proved to be a terrible time for vulnerable children and adults who needed monitoring and support at the worst time.
so let’s look at the statistics for violent women as well.

NervousInYorkshire · 29/05/2023 00:51

^ oh and said he did "talks about equality" - never mentioned trans issues when showing us photos of his house of lords trip.

NervousInYorkshire · 29/05/2023 00:50

Soontobe60 · 28/05/2023 14:56

This delightful TW, both a murderer and a sex offender who attempted to rape a shop assistant, said he did it because he wanted to get surgery for free in prison.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html

He was the first prisoner to be granted a GRC while serving time.

When I met him (about 5 years ago) he was telling people that he was a cis woman.

Sugarfree23 · 29/05/2023 00:31

Stuff I remember reading around the time of the Isla Bryson case. Memory is a bit fuzzy, but you'll be able to find it via Google

1 in 500 odd (might have been 534)
MtF have committed crimes
1 in 20,000 (certainly thousands)
Males have committed crime

Ofcourseshecan · 28/05/2023 22:32

EsmaCannonball · 28/05/2023 17:32

Cross-dressing is by far and away the most common paraphilia among sex offenders, rapists and serial killers.

That aside, what's happening now isn't so much about men who identify as women being more likely to be predators, it's that men who are predators are becoming more and more attracted to a movement which facilitates predation. If you build it, they will come.

Oh god, yes that has to be true: transgenderism is a gift to men who hate women. It gets worse and worse.

Original poster
Chamomileteaplease · 28/05/2023 21:06

Thanks again Signalbox. Really useful for future conversations.

OP posts:
OscarsAmmonite · 28/05/2023 20:48

Indeed...💜🤍💚

Can anyone point me to any stats on whether fully transitioned males (mtf) are any less violent than men as a group generally?
Signalbox · 28/05/2023 20:45

Also there's this document which was the written evidence submitted by Professor Rosa Freedman, Professor Kathleen Stock and Professor Alice Sullivan for the WEC in relation to GRA reform (I think). Probably got everything you need in one document.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

Redirect Notice

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=0CAIQw7AJahcKEwjgjMS34Zj_AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommittees.parliament.uk%2Fwrittenevidence%2F18973%2Fdefault%2F&psig=AOvVaw0iFNPK-UwE5G2wjyfPlTmO&ust=1685389000444346

Shelefttheweb · 28/05/2023 20:42

Chamomileteaplease · 28/05/2023 19:24

Yes, I would never challenge a man in ie a woman's toilets because I would assume they were a bad 'un just by the fact they were there.

It is interesting though that even those "fully transitioned" still retain the same likelihood towards violence. This should be more fully shouted about.

Quite, any man in a women’s toilets has already shown they have no regard for women’s boundaries and is prepared to place their own desires above the needs of women, or treats women as props in his own fantasy where lack of consent may be part of the point.

Original poster
Chamomileteaplease · 28/05/2023 19:24

Yes, I would never challenge a man in ie a woman's toilets because I would assume they were a bad 'un just by the fact they were there.

It is interesting though that even those "fully transitioned" still retain the same likelihood towards violence. This should be more fully shouted about.

OP posts:
zibzibara · 28/05/2023 19:23

EsmaCannonball · 28/05/2023 17:32

Cross-dressing is by far and away the most common paraphilia among sex offenders, rapists and serial killers.

That aside, what's happening now isn't so much about men who identify as women being more likely to be predators, it's that men who are predators are becoming more and more attracted to a movement which facilitates predation. If you build it, they will come.

True, this shows gender self-id policy is a failure, whichever one of those is the real reason.

Madamecastafiore · 28/05/2023 19:17

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Original poster
Chamomileteaplease · 28/05/2023 18:57

Thank you Signalbox.

Trouble is, it makes me angry reading about it! These men recorded as women. Mad, dangerous and as usual, unfair.

OP posts:
Signalbox · 28/05/2023 17:51

Chamomileteaplease · 28/05/2023 13:53

I recently had the unfortunate and shocking, though sadly I know not unusual, conversation recently with a much-loved relative where I was called a terf etc etc.

We could barely talk about it because I didn't want to fall out with him.

But we started talking about men in women's spaces and although it is common sense that if you were to come across a man in a dress you know you would treat him with the same caution you would any other man. But a fully transitioned one? Do they lose any male aggression? Are we any safer around them? I imagine not but would appreciate any research/knowledge.

The stats are unreliable anyway because crimes that are carried out by men who say they are women are being recorded as having been carried out by women so you can’t very easily trust the data anymore. There’s some good info on the KPSS website on offending of men who claim to be women and data collection of crimes committed by men but attributed to women.

https://kpssinfo.org/how-are-male-prisoners-who-identify-as-transgender-recorded-in-the-data/

How Are Male Prisoners Who Identify As Transgender Recorded In The Data? - Keep Prisons Single Sex

When a male prisoner has obtained a GRC, he must be recorded as female/woman in all records: that he is of the male sex can only be recorded with his permission.

https://kpssinfo.org/how-are-male-prisoners-who-identify-as-transgender-recorded-in-the-data/

FrontEnd · 28/05/2023 17:35

On the GRA data (population type i.e. jail, sample size IIRC it was the only data which was verified (actually tracked) at that time and was only made available through FOI, I think requested by Fair Play for Women. One thing which stuck with me (and I don't have files to hand as on mobile so might be in another doc) was that due to differences in incarceration rates males v females overall, it would only require a relatively low % of males to selfID as females to access women's prisons....in order to put females as the minority in women's prisons!

Farmageddon · 28/05/2023 17:34

EsmaCannonball · 28/05/2023 17:32

Cross-dressing is by far and away the most common paraphilia among sex offenders, rapists and serial killers.

That aside, what's happening now isn't so much about men who identify as women being more likely to be predators, it's that men who are predators are becoming more and more attracted to a movement which facilitates predation. If you build it, they will come.

Yes, this is so true. The definition of what is trans is so diluted now (and cannot be questioned) that all manor of weirdos are taking advantage.

When you create a 'sacred caste' of special identity, where their behaviour is excused and ignored because of their specialness - manipulative and abusive people will see that and infiltrate.

WhereYouLeftIt · 28/05/2023 17:34

LittleBlueBrioTrain · 28/05/2023 14:19

Taking female hormones causes irreversible changes to the testicles within about 6-12 weeks (they shrink in size by about half, stop producing semen etc.) so it would make sense for testosterone driven behaviours to reduce/cease.

That said, all the trans women I know (several) weren't aggressive or in any way a threat to women before they began transitioning, never mind after.

Irreversible? Really?

EsmaCannonball · 28/05/2023 17:32

Cross-dressing is by far and away the most common paraphilia among sex offenders, rapists and serial killers.

That aside, what's happening now isn't so much about men who identify as women being more likely to be predators, it's that men who are predators are becoming more and more attracted to a movement which facilitates predation. If you build it, they will come.