Another stonking column from Hadley Freeman

This one?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e359a0e3-86ca-4b94-b628-2de4cdd7a196?shareToken=c469d1e61a4f7cbf297d0eada8b37f0f

It’s a single paragraph but he’s clearly bemused by males claiming to menstruate.

It’s remarkably offensive for GCs to claim they are experiencing something similar. It’s downright hilarious for them to be making such claims when the media is predominantly on side and the government is entirely on side.

Lol, pop into the trans subreddit and scold them about their frequent references to their non existent "genocide" why don't you.

Great column from Hadley, as usual.

Did anyone else spot in yesterday's Sunday Times the interview by Decca Aitkenhead with Richard Coles? It actually touched on the trans issue - he didn't say much, but he did say that he couldn't understand the idea that gender identity was more important than biology. After his brief Twitter comment recently, we might see some full-on Terfing from him soon. I hope so.

Hasn't explained where all these plantation owners and their wives are, either.

there’s no independent body if the body has been placed there with a single purpose aligned with a governments aims and purpose.

Quite.

However there's also no independent body if the body has been politically captured by a group with a single purpose aligned with an extremist political lobby's aims and purposes: with one specifically being to control and prevent the government providing independent and impartial care for all equally.

In which case the government has a duty to have the aim and purpose of investigating and removing this influence and returning the body back to an independent state.

The TQ+ lobby and supporters would only ever approve of the EHRC if it was entirely controlled by them and saying entirely what they told it to, with a required denial and subordination of all needs other than T ones, and women particularly having no rights at all. We live in times where those extremists and their mouthpieces (BBC particularly included) would call that 'independent' and try to sell it to the general public in this way.

The general public are going to realise what many women here realised a long time ago: they've been had. They have been lied to. They have been manipulated. And those responsible are going to scream like hell when they are made to stop. We're all going to have to live with the screaming and hyperbole for a while, because in reality, no one is being hurt. This is returning the situation back to where it should have stayed in the first place.

I’d just popped in to see if @TraumatisedGooner had explained the gender identity that trans women and cis women share. Something he’s happy to insult people on the internet for not believing in.

I see he hasn’t managed it.

great discussion on intersectionality though. And reassuringly terrible AI pictures of the cone of shame. I feel my job is safe for a while longer

A couple of points to this yesterday radio 4 had a programme article on the very same issue of culture and arts and cancellation and the issue around thinking and cancellation the McCarthy era of American politics.
and how all of these seem to be happening and at the moment the crucible was struggling to gain new actors.as the origins of the play relate to the Salem which trials and pedophilia which the programme didn’t want to get into for obvious reasons.
Baroness Faulkner and the EHRC investigation hasn’t been stopped it’s merely paused and when it resumes the outcome may or may not be in baroness Faulkner’s favour & there’s no independent body if the body has been placed there with a single purpose aligned with a governments aims and purpose.

I remember that Deptford women’s study, the words that first came to mind then and now are ‘cause everybody hates a tourist’

Yeh..But look at the cute dog!😀

Love Hadley, I’ve just read her book ‘Good Girls, a story and study of anorexia.’
It’s a brilliant book, quite harrowing in places but ultimately very positive with a happy ending in her case, there were chapters which made me cry, she’s very likeable, it’s written in a very sensitive way.
As someone still recovering from an eating disorder, nowhere near as acute as what Hadley recovered from, it helped to make sense of some things although I would not recommend the book to anyone not well into recovery and did wonder if I was reading it because I’m not as well as I thought I was if that makes sense; it would be a good resource for parents with daughters with eating disorders especially anorexia.

Hadley Freeman writing for The Sunday Times isn't an example of it.

How about her writing for the Times only because she was hounded out of her job at the Guardian, because of the screeching of a gang of pampered bullies?

A re read of the Deptford Women's Project open letter may be interesting at this point. They were noting at the time that their service users - people struggling with addiction, with literacy, with access to education, poverty, homelessness - were having to deal with an invasion of privately educated, wealthy young students from the university who wished to take over the session and lecture these people, in detail, about how those students were more oppressed than anyone, (largely about stating a claim to be the focus of the group and activities, and to lead and determine the actions of the group) and about pronouns and the importance of social justice politics and language choices.

They were unable to notice that to those living on the edge, day to day, with real problems such as where the next meal came from or where to sleep tonight, or with filling out a form, pronouns were on a different planet.

Gentrification of working class was how the project put it - and explained it well - but it was largely fetishizing and role playing a perceived identity. With absolute, serene obliviousness to how unreal and insulting this was to people actually living in the world this privileged, wealthy, highly educated group were enjoying a dabble in. While wishing to be the commanding class of it. That part of it sailed over their heads too.

Part of the problem is that so many people seem to fold oppression into the identities they so focused on. such that it becomes the most important, and almost essential, characteristic.

But oppression is one of the effects of quite complex power relations. And identity - as a process where society categorises people rather than some essential description of the self - is folded into the operation of power. Intersectionality is just a concept to try to deal with the complex outcomes of multiple identity categories that operate in society.

Some of those categories are premised on genuine differences - biological sex does have meaningful effects in the world for example, as does age (or at least human development which correlates reasonably well with chronological age). But how these differences are used and positioned socially is where the power relations and the oppressive outcomes matters.

Of course, the problem with ‘gender’ as an identity category is that it’s just the cultural bullshit that we impose on biological sex. But apparently we’re supposed to view it as more real than sex. Or we’re dreadful bigots.

which is all to say, all the activists who are pretty much fetishing oppression are being ridiculous.

I suspect many of the former have a fetish of (their idea of) being oppressed.

I was going to suggest that being both oppressed and oppressor seems to undermine intersectionality as a useful or helpful as an analytical construct. But you’ve said that much more succinctly.

@TraumatisedGooner
I do not believe that women's rights and trans rights are as contradictory as many of you do.

Hi Gooner,
If you are still here, I would be grateful if you could expand upon this belief a bit.
What made you come to this conclusion?

As far as I can see, it is patently obvious that there is a fundamental conflict, because at present (in theory) women have the right not to have male-bodied people in female only spaces (sports, positions, etc.). If transwomen have access to these spaces, then women are disadvantaged, to put it mildly, because they have then just lost the single-sex purpose of the spaces.

Where I live, you can't move for 'plantation owners'. 🙄

The "problem" arises when we don't bend the knee to the overlords and have the bold faced audacity to say no.

Same as it ever was.

I really can’t see what’s disgusting about the ‘disgusting’ comment. I’ve seen that person on Mastermind. That person was

a - wearing lipstick
b - not a woman.

So where’s the problem, apart from the problem I’ve had in wording this comment so it isn’t immediately deleted?

Yes exactly. Funny how are the threats of death and rape and actual wanting to kill and decapitate people only ever come from the trans side. Women are attacked for saying men have penises. That's literally all they are saying. The hypocrisy shown by @TraumatisedGooner is unbelievable. Do you even hear what you are defending? Bit much to say mumsnet is an echo chamber when that's because women have beeb threatened into silence with the bbc and guardian fully on board with mutilating children and telling them women want them dead. Actually think about who benefits from hundreds of kids whose bodies will never grow up?? There is absolutely no evidence that hormones and surgery help dysphoria anyway.

It's not trans people losing their jobs for having the wrong opinion on gender. It's women.
Hadley is right. This is gender McCarthyism.

@nilsmousehammer - it’s insane, isn’t it?

The real danger to trans people seems to me to come from TRA endlessly telling young people that Those Bad People want to kill them, eradicate them, drive them to suicide.
Way to fuck up people’s mental health and create a paranoid environment, TRAs.

Whereas GC or ‘terf’ people want natal males to stay out of women’s spaces and prevent young women who are lesbian, or have mental health issues, or are autistic to be put on a pathway to sterility, lack of sexual function and self mutilation, at least until co-morbidities are addressed and informed consent can be given.

Any physical threats the trans population face come from the same place everyone experiences physical threats - violent males, regardless of identity.

Being silenced, being villified for saying things you haven't said, being told when you say X you mean Y and Y is hatespeak, losing your job, your network of colleagues, having your existing body of work shunned, all for being told you believe something you don't believe and have made threats you haven't made? Death threats, Rape threats, threats of violence to you and your loved ones. If that isn't persecution, what is?

These have happened to Moore, Freeman, Linehan, Rowling.

Great user name

Im sure someone can explain to me how late transitioning Middle Aged middle class men who like to wear women’s clothes are an oppressed minority compared to a woman with a disability relying on personal care who is called a bigot for only wanting women of the biological kind to carry out her intimate care 🤔