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Original poster

How has the media conditioned people to 'be kind' re transgender debate?

157 replies

FriendofJoanne · 26/05/2023 10:10

It definitely has; when I saw a friend a few months ago and shared the Sex Matters petition and said "but there are only 2 biological sexes" she said "but you can't say that any more".

I feel that we have absorbed the message that speaking against the trans rights movement is to be a bigot or transphobic but I'm looking for evidence of how this happened if anyone can help?

I've read the Shonagh Dillon paper (here if anyone hasn't read it) but that focuses on social media rather than mainstream. Does anyone know of anything which looks at mainstream media? Thanks

#TERF/Bigot/Transphobe – We found the witch, burn her!

https://researchportal.port.ac.uk/en/studentTheses/terfbigottransphobe-we-found-the-witch-burn-her

OP posts:
SunnyEgg · 26/05/2023 10:49

Politicians, TRAs and media and even some posters on here would like women not to say anything other than be kind

Helleofabore · 26/05/2023 10:48

It has been a deliberate strategy.

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

www.iglyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IGLYO_v3-1.pdf

You might need to plug this into an archive site. I know several have it. And it has now been removed from this link

Nothing ‘seeped’ into mainstream, it was handled.

MargotBamborough · 26/05/2023 10:48

Thumpsquids · 26/05/2023 10:28

I still see headlines claiming, 'Anti-Trans,' rather than 'Pro-the rights of women and girls,' far too often.

Yes, this is everywhere.

Every time someone like JK Rowling says something about women's rights it is reframed by the likes of Pink News, Buzzfeed and even The Guardian as "anti-trans", and by more sensible media outlets as "her views on transgender rights".

She's not talking about trans rights. She's talking about women's rights. The female, childbearing kind. Is that still allowed?

ditalini · 26/05/2023 10:46

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:39

@ditalini
I mean that a lot of people are very fast to decide that having gender dysphoria is not real because they have never personally experienced it. And people who let the bad actions of some trans people, such as predatory behaviour, taint their views on all trans people, most of whom are not predators. I

Oh, ok. Well I dispute that "a lot of people" on here don't think gender dysphoria exists. I think it's well accepted that it exists, although since we need to accept the "lived experience" of trans people we also need to acknowledge that they tell us that dysphoria is not a prerequisite of being trans so you'll want to watch yourself there - be kind.

The "tarring all trans people with the same brush" - I also dispute. For a start you're forgetting transmen (as so many do). Secondly, I challenge you to give a single example of your claim - I'm pretty sure you'll find that what's being said is that transwomen offend at a similar rate to all other males. Not all men are predators but we risk assess because some are and we tell which ones. It's no different to getting everyone who works with vulnerable people to get a DBS - that's not saying that all teachers are abusers.

MargotBamborough · 26/05/2023 10:44

user1492757084 · 26/05/2023 10:20

People have always been kind to those who are different.
I think most people still consider that there are two sexes plus a few abnormalities at birth and some people who decide to change their sex. All are of equal worth.
Social media makes one feel that to state that might now offend people.
So, because people are generally kind and the number of people opting to change is growing, people don't state the obvious.
Main stream media focuses mostly on politics, war and the ecconomy.

You can decide to change your sex all you like, but you can't actually physically do it.

A male person's insistence that he is female is not, and should never be, of equal worth to my truthful and factual statement that I am female.

SapphosRock · 26/05/2023 10:44

Most people consider themselves to support gay rights. Stonewall, Pink News etc claim supporting trans rights is the same as supporting gay rights and people buy it.

People don't consider or care that women have rights too. Particularly men who have no skin in the game.

Myalternate · 26/05/2023 10:42

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:29

Genuine question, not meaning any offence. But what is the issue with transgender people? Why do I see so many people on MN who are not tolerant of them?

I’ve no objections to transgender people, they’re just people after all. My issue is that instead of living in a society that’s the same for everyone, some transgenders demand that society changes to suit them.

Imagine you’ve saved for months just to buy a car and a person tells you that they now want it and demand your keys are handed over, would you willingly give them up? Well, I am not giving up my keys for anyone.

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:42

@NotHavingIt Could you elaborate on the deeper issues? I am not trying to ignore these issues, just wondering why people often regard trans people so critically

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:39

@ditalini
I mean that a lot of people are very fast to decide that having gender dysphoria is not real because they have never personally experienced it. And people who let the bad actions of some trans people, such as predatory behaviour, taint their views on all trans people, most of whom are not predators. I

NotHavingIt · 26/05/2023 10:35

FriendofJoanne · 26/05/2023 10:33

That book sounds excellent @NotHavingIt I'll look that one up. It may be my next read. Just finished Hags.

Definitely!

It chimes entirely with my own recent obsession with boundaries ( of all sorts) and how they are becoming one of the dominant issues of our age.

NotHavingIt · 26/05/2023 10:33

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:29

Genuine question, not meaning any offence. But what is the issue with transgender people? Why do I see so many people on MN who are not tolerant of them?

And to be honest, without meaning to be rude, but that statement is just so " happy clappy". It shows no awareness of the deeper issues with which people are grappling.

Original poster
FriendofJoanne · 26/05/2023 10:33

That book sounds excellent @NotHavingIt I'll look that one up. It may be my next read. Just finished Hags.

OP posts:
ditalini · 26/05/2023 10:33

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:29

Genuine question, not meaning any offence. But what is the issue with transgender people? Why do I see so many people on MN who are not tolerant of them?

Can you define what you mean by "not tolerant"? It would be particularly helpful if you could give some examples of statements that you feel are not tolerant.

A lot of this debate involves people speaking/writing at cross purposes because the terms they use no longer have a common definition. I read "not tolerant" as not wanting trans people to go about their every day business in life, or not being acceptable in society but maybe you mean something different?

Original poster
FriendofJoanne · 26/05/2023 10:32

No one I've seen on this board has any problem with transgender people @janeinthewild we just don't agree with children being told they can be born in the wrong body and set on a path to sterlisation and a lifetime on medication with long term health risks.

We don't agree that any man at any age can declare himself to be a woman and be permitted to use single sex spaces meant for women, or be put on short lists for women, or enter the women's category in sports.

OP posts:
NotHavingIt · 26/05/2023 10:32

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:29

Genuine question, not meaning any offence. But what is the issue with transgender people? Why do I see so many people on MN who are not tolerant of them?

The issue is the transgression of female boundaries, and of women's spaces - without consent.

NotHavingIt · 26/05/2023 10:31

Zodfa · 26/05/2023 10:24

I think they do it indirectly by only ever portraying trans people as nice struggling people who pass well as the opposite sex. They filter out the uglier aspects of the trans movement to make it more appealing.

Yes, they filter out the roots of gender identity theory which lie in Queer theory; they filter out the transgressive sexual practices, fetishes, the kink, the pornography, the AGPs, the sex offenders.........

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 10:29

Genuine question, not meaning any offence. But what is the issue with transgender people? Why do I see so many people on MN who are not tolerant of them?

NotHavingIt · 26/05/2023 10:28

DemiColon · 26/05/2023 10:22

"Be Kind" is a message everywhere, and not just in terms of the trangender debate.

They have a warped view of what kind means though. I think kindness is usually a good thing, and not always easy, but that's quite different than just accepting whatever someone says, or not applying normal thinking skills to a situation.

It's also the case that across social justice movements there has been a huge push on these "things you can't say anymore." And it's not typically the really rude things - they were always recognized as rude, that was the whole point of people saying them. This is about creating an ever changing class of language that is acceptable and which is not, often with little logic and no consensus from the people who are involved either.

Similarly the idea that you can't question or dispute "lived experience."

There has been a huge push generally to remove the use of thinking skills around certain issues.

Frank Furedi, in his book, mentions that as the older boundaries which have provided guidance and structure are challenged ( such as bounddaries between male and female, child and adult, public and private), they are being replaced with a different sort of boundary - and that is the sort of boundary which involves what can and can't be said, and that which constitutes 'thought crime', as just two examples.

Thumpsquids · 26/05/2023 10:28

I still see headlines claiming, 'Anti-Trans,' rather than 'Pro-the rights of women and girls,' far too often.

Babdoc · 26/05/2023 10:27

It’s called institutional capture, OP. The trans rights brigade infiltrated the media years ago, along with the judiciary, education, etc.
Once in positions of power, they changed policy, orchestrated by Stonewall, to intimidate and silence criticism. They campaigned to portray trans identifying men as a vulnerable oppressed minority, despite them a) being one of the least threatened demographics in the UK, and b) including autogynephiles and dangerous, predatory, sexual fetishists as well as straightforward gender dysphorics, under their “everyone accepted” trans umbrella.

Original poster
FriendofJoanne · 26/05/2023 10:26

@Zodfa that makes sense. Reading the responses on here I can see that it isn't just the news, it's portrayals in tv programmes that might be watched more widely. Along with the "BE KIND!" and NO DEBATE! Transwomen are Women, Most Vulnerable etc etc rhetoric.

OP posts:
Zodfa · 26/05/2023 10:24

I think they do it indirectly by only ever portraying trans people as nice struggling people who pass well as the opposite sex. They filter out the uglier aspects of the trans movement to make it more appealing.

Myalternate · 26/05/2023 10:23

I’ve always been of the ‘be kind’ mindset. If someone deserves respect, then respect them. Sadly, that respect now only goes one way, so, I’ll still give respect where it’s due but will not accept it being demanded of me any more.
That might not answer your question but it is what it is for me now. If I am

described as a bigot or transphobe it means absolutely nothing anymore 🧙‍♀️