How has the media conditioned people to 'be kind' re transgender debate?

But what if, sometimes, the "ray of sunshine", can be the unthinking and irresponsible one?

That was not my intention. I asked a related question and was met with many passively agressive replies which overwhelmed this thread, even though I have made it clear numerous time that I am willing to hear anyone and everyone's opinion.

I expect it's a good idea to pay no attention to anyone who is trying to derail the thread.

Eh?

You're a ray of sunshine aren't you

You would do better to start your own thread asking your original question. This thread is specifically about the news media and it is getting derailed.

I think the point is supposed to be because someone felt sorry for another person 24 years ago in one specific situation,

women shouldn't want equality or rights. Because it isn't 'kind'. It's not 'kind' to those women though, is it?

Have to say no, it doesn't help much but thanks all the same.

My comment is to the thread title... the whole movement reminds me of covid when informed consent and my body my choice, became the target for hatred and being labelled mad anti vaxxers.

Protection for single sex spaces and believing in science doesn't make someone suddenly phobic of a proportion of the population.

Like another poster said, it's been infiltrating everywhere for years but in a clearly coordinated way.

Trying to tell us we are all big old meanies I suspect @SaltyColin

I genuinely don't understand what point is being made here.

It's the "HTH" at the end that's throwing me off.

It is not cheap for a paperback, butIi think that is because it is more of an academic book than a mass market book.

Sounds like we are going through a similar sort of personal process at present. 😀

Boundaries represent limitations and defintions, but without them there is no true integrity, no real achievement, and a break-down social cohesion.

It's not discrimination to say that someone shouldn't be using spaces and services or competing in sports for members of the opposite sex.

Thank you SO MUCH for this book recommendation NotHavingIt!
As I too have recently become obsessed by the concept of boundaries (personal, social, cultural- the works), inspired by both my personaI process in recent years, and by seeing the same conflicted attitudes mirrored in society right now- I was intrigued. Have just downloaded the book sample- and from what I've read so far, it is deeply validating to see my inner musings echoed and articulated.

Going to splash out on it!
I love mumsnet!
Much appreciation to you.

Dialsquare I totally agree with you

It wasn’t in the media then. We weren’t ‘being kind’. We were decent human beings thinking about another human being.

Were you really though? Were you thinking about the female human beings that will self exclude from their own single sex spaces once they become mixed sex? Were you thinking of the wife and children human beings that have their lives turned upside down by their husband and fathers transitioning? Were you thinking about the female human beings in prison having to share space with rapists? Were you thinking about the female human beings who have put their whole lives in to sports that they can't win because males have decided they want to be included?
No, I don't think you were. But you go ahead and pat yourself in the back for being so kind.

My first encounter with a transgender woman (that I know of) was about 24 years ago. On a military base I was stationed on. She was the person the contractors sent to collect the sanitary waste bins. We passed her as we’d just left the mess after lunch. Our first thought was ‘that must be the shittest job ever’, the ‘that’s brave, coming on a base full of squaddies and sailors who aren’t known for being gentle’ then we talked about how driving the urge must be to go to those lengths and no doubt receive horrible comments and discrimination every day.

It wasn’t in the media then. We weren’t ‘being kind’. We were decent human beings thinking about another human being.

HTH

If a purported value is not unconditionally and equally extended to all, then it's not a value. It's a performative thing that is meeting the needs of the person exhorting it. It's also part of the recognised dynamic of abusive relationships.

Hence the 'inclusion' that includes him while excluding her.
The 'intersectionality' that ignores all female intersections.
And the 'kindness' she must supply (which actually translates as sacrifice, subordinate, enable and have no boundaries) but which he would openly deride suggestion of extending to her.

The words are nothing more than a cold attempt to manipulate the well intentioned using words for personal leverage and personal gain. We've been had.

So when I see the TQ+ political lobby extending and modelling towards women the kind of treatment they would like women to supply in return to them, I will be glad to participate. To the extent to which they do.

Most people are fairly kind polite to people on first meeting - unless they are given reason to anticipate something negative. 'Kindness' does not mean having to go along with someone else's personal belief system, though, nor feel compelled to use pronouns in an atmosphere of coercion.

Trans identified people are not a monolith ( as you pointed out earlier) - they are just regular people like everyone else. They are also just as likely to display the full range of positive and negative behaviours as anyone else. Just because someone has a trans identity it does not entitle them to special treatment, or mean that they are uniquely kind, sensitive, loving people.

We're not "sharing" womenhood though, are we. Men are taking the bits they like the look of; mainly lipstick, heels, frilly knickers, lesbian pillow-fighting and other tedious porn-related stereotypes.

They seem to be less interested in "sharing" maternity leave, caring for elderly relatives, being paid less and doing more housework.

https://twitter.com/anyabike/status/1661995006511525888/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1661995006511525888&currentTweetUser=anyabike

As Helen Joyce says in this clip you can't think through the issues if you can't use the language.

Stopping honest and straightforward language from being used in the press was intentional. The right words can be used without mocking and derision but making them completely verboten was for another reason, it was intended to prop up the illusion and never break the spell.

It didn't work.

Children have been part of it - get a cute sad face eight year old boy on TV in address and long hair that the big bad meanies won’t allow in the ladies toilets. Ignore the stubbled 40 year old rapist in a ‘baby girl’ fetish outfit.

Otherwise known as "the Emma Watson".

"Of course trans women are women and are welcome in women's spaces", says woman who is not an athlete, has never been in prison, has never had to use a rape crisis centre or women's shelter and has probably not even used a public toilet since she was 9 and shopping with her mum in Debenhams.

Sharing womanhood is such a trite awful phrase

It is and very look at me! look how wonderful and kind I am, woo-hoo go me!

Kindness to women though? Nah, fuck that. Hypocritical virtue signalling irritants.

For me, I had a bit of a moment of clarity. Despite being GC, I drifted along into a live and let live mentality of accepting pronouns and even the transgender child as a proper concept.

I'd spent my youth hating adults criticising me and my choices, I was never gonna do the same as an adult myself.

And as easy as that, I slunk along being generally complicit and passive tbh, but never feeling that great about it.

Then a whole bunch of trans issues and stories coalesced after 2019, to electroshock me out of my cloudy thinking, and I became aware that my compromise couldn't hold, that indeed the issue was now more zero sum game.

Around the time of the Abigail Shrier book, GC consultants silenced within their own conferences, JKR pile on. And then ramped up as the Lia Thomas case exploded, with attendant doubling down from the likes of Owen Jones, Ash Sarkar etc, and at best, tumbleweeds re rational discourse from the MSM.

And once I realised the pronouns were being imposed on me as requirement not request, and that the medicalisation of youth was predicated on a concept with no basis in science, and having extricated myself from the herd mentality and purity spirals of Brexit, I was damned if I was gonna deep dive into another toxic hot mess...that was when the elastic in my brain hit maximum stretch and I rebounded, never to return to cowardice and compromise again.

For me, the test of character here is, do you accept the concept that a male can become a female, vice versa, or that you can become both, or neither. Not do you "feel" the opposite, but that you "are" the opposite.

And by extension, do you accept kids can have an innate gender ID, that can change, and must be surrendered to as an adult.

If you do, fine, but I don't, and never will.
But I look back to my period of lacking rigour and character, and see how easy it was to kowtow to the pressure from polite society.