How has the media conditioned people to 'be kind' re transgender debate?

I’ll be polite and respectful to genuine trans who don’t go around DEMANDING that I so do

So in fact you'll be polite and respectful to anyone who treats you with equality and reciprocity of politeness and respectfulness. That'll work.

I'll go along with that, and I'll be completely diversity inclusive and equal opportunities with it, and say that's how I am with everyone of either sex, any gender, any belief, yada yada.

I will not be making special exceptions to this for any group. I will not be indulging or enabling people who wish to behave badly or abusively towards me regardless of their choice of label, and I will not regard any choice of label as a reason to get away with being an arse to other people while requiring special treatment from them.

Not being a gullible twit and possessing normal boundaries.

Maybe you would find this thread interesting and informative.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4796082-still-genuinely-willing-to-discuss-in-good-faith?reply=125822073

Or, as others have said, start a thread and ask the questions you want answered. If you ask in a respectful way, you might get answers.

I have an issue with men claiming to be women expecting me to validate them. And I most certainly won’t be doing that. I’ll be polite and respectful to genuine trans who don’t go around DEMANDING that I so do. I couldn’t care less what trans men do, they are women so they don’t bother me in the slightest, they are very welcome in womens showers, changing rooms etc. I’ve zero respect for AGP men, especially those who terrorise their wives. I’ve also zero time for men with perverted sexual kinks. How dare you suggest that I or others on here are not tolerant. We’ve been too tolerant actually. And now because of that children have been irreparably damaged. Particularly girls.

Do you think I should ‘tolerate’ a naked man in my swimming pool changing room because he’s decided he’s a woman? If you do, then you and he are not being tolerant of my view that woman should be entitled to our safe spaces.

I think the mangling of pronoun usage in media articles has been deliberate and designed to obfuscate what's really happening.

There is never any clear indication of whether pronouns used are sex or gender based and without this information, people can't tell the truth of the matter. Often sex and gender based pronouns will be used within the same article, to the point many people (including me) just don't believe reporting about sex/gender anymore because you just can't possibly know which they're using on any given occasion.

Though usually when it comes to crime reporting they assume the victims pronouns without bothering to ask whilst going out of their way to ensure the perpetrator isn't made to feel sad by using the wrong pronouns.

This sort of obfuscation in any other article would be considered misleading and of course in reality it is misleading but somehow they've got away with it for years.

People have always been kind to those who are different.

This is one of the maddest statements about humanity I think I’ve ever read. Hatred and fear of those different to ourselves is the engine of racism, xenophobia, nationalism, homophobia etc

Yep! This.

Whenever I see ‘I am happy to share womaanhood’, I think well, I don’t, so why does your opinion count more than mine.

Then, when you strip away the ‘I am happy to share…’, it is only superficial anyway. The reality is, that they aren’t for every single possibility. Therefore it is a false statement.

Sorry everyone. Just coming back to this thread. That second link is to the Denton’s report.

As I said, in the past month that has been deleted from that link, but there are archive sites with it on. I cannot post those links though as MN deletes archive links.

Yes friendofJo, when you see the word ‘persuadables’ you realise just how people are viewed. The Denton’s report is chilling in its manipulation.

I remember reading a few years ago about how Julia Gillard tabled and changed Australia’a anti-discrimination act to include gender identity. This was after she attended Yogyakarta. Now, I remember that act being changed and thought nothing of it at time. I had a career I was attempting to rebuild and an early primary school child.

Now I look back and understand. These were moves that were being strategically orchestrated.

No it bloody isn't! Transwomen have every right that every other human has - and I'm pretty sure that every poster here would defend their right to them. But transwomen are men (by definition, or what is the "trans" about?) and the extra rights that transwomen want and that no other men have are unacceptable.

Unless you're prepared to tell us what human rights transwomen don't have in the UK that anyone else has. We've been waiting to hear that answer for a while, so we're all ears...!

WTAF? Women on this board are defending the rights of actual, you know, women - and arguing against being subsumed into a subclass of biological men. That is not an "anti trans sentiment", it's a pro-women one. How hard is it to understand that the rights of women need defending from men, regardless of how the latter identify?

No no no

I have no doubt that gender dysphoria isn't real fit those experiencing it. But what's the difference between a man who believes he's a woman, and a woman

For many on here including me, biology.
I am a woman not because I identify as one, but because of my biology.

I feel sorry for gender dysphoric individuals. But that doesn't mean I must be compelled to accept they are women, same as me. They have different bodies and unfortunately, that really matters in many situations.

Brilliant post.
I'm a man (apparently, says so on the tin).
Women join my class, say that they are men.
I lose zero sleep.
I'll still be stronger than them, more stamina, more aggressive, more cunning.
I'll still make more money, get more opportunities.
Will beat them at sport, not put out by the least by them in my safe spaces, toilets, sports, prisons.

Women, on the other hand...

It reminds me of that Rebecca West quote

"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute.
Rebecca West, The Young Rebecca:

A huge part of female socialisation is to be kind and share, smile, play nicely and don't be difficult and let the other children have their turn.

Imagine for a second there were no biologically male trans people/male allies involved in the gender identity movement and that dysphoria was an issue that only affected biologically female people.

Is there even the slightest chance that all the institutions would have been captured to the extent that they have been in a short time frame if it were the case?

That's what tells me it's fundamentally a men's rights movement which exploits the enculturated kindness of women - because only men benefit.

I can think of precisely zero advantage to women as a sex class to include 0.2% of UK men in it. Instead there are all the many things we are losing: our language, our spaces, our sports, our safety, privacy and dignity etc

Be Kind in this context has come to mean "Comply, or else" and if saying 'no' / not lying/ holding on to reality/ being aware of safeguarding etc distinguishes me from a doormat in this situation and makes me 'unkind', well, so be it.

Word 👍

The plan is in tatters though, like a worn out ballgown children have dressed up in.

It is fascinating how far it got, there was a collective rabbit in the headlights moment, then whoosh, it's as daft as it sounds and no, that 6 foot 4 fella in the swimming pool is a man.

As KJ Keen said, I'm not a vet but I know what a dog is.

In the end it's people saying things like this that turned it around.

Lol at middle aged white straight men in lacy lingerie being a 'minority'.

I mean if that's what sharing womanhood is to you, have fun. Meanwhile back in the real world...

Stupid is as stupid says.

Sheeple reality fan, humans are sheeple. Get a few through the gate and the rest will follow.

This is a life lesson.

But Hepwo, my point stands. There is no compulsion to follow the guidelines. To do so is purely choice.

Fascinatingly once the perp is arrested and charged, correct gendering is being followed.

I know but you can continually harass ofcom and ipsos or whoever, whose sexist nature was also triggered into applying sexist guidelines to be as sexist as the gender identity sexists wanted them to be.

It's not difficult to get a sexist media to carry on being sexist.

There's a movie title in there somewhere!

Sexist genderists; No more sniggering, we are actually women!

Sexist journos; Oh, okay then. You are actually women.

It wasn't difficult. It's a miracle that any of them have managed to unravel their sexist squared formula.

I am indeed. My priorities are the safety, dignity, privacy, comfort, well-being and happiness of woman and girls, the adult human females and the juvenile human females of this world. What are yours?

The only people qualified to share womanhood are adult human females, you speak about it as if it is some kind of club you can apply for membership to, it isn't.

It's not legally enforceable. They're just guidelines.

Can you give an example of the media "stirring up anti trans sentiment"?