Is girl guides single sex again?

Also British guiding overseas...

Presumably all the girl scouts /other members of waggs (can't remember the acronym) Will still run - even if girl guides uk implodes?

Do our policies affect them? Are other girl guides remaining female sex only?

Oh Beamur that's sad isn't it. I had hope it could be prevented. I honestly thought with us all saying safeguarding and the high profile cases there would be change but it seems the rot is to the core 😔.

I think about all the proper old school guiders and all the hours that went into making guides what it was and I feel so sad.

And yes the units round here are craft/faffing rather than proper adventuring but that divide will just become more apparent if they're getting rid of centres and encouraging "adventuring wherever we are- at home/etc"

Whats the end game. Did the transactivists want a girlified guides that trans women can join. Or to kill the movement?!

Those activities are what my Guides do, it's all dependant on what individual leaders feel capable of offering. I need to renew my rifle shooting qualification so that I can take them shooting again. HQ have told everyone to do more adventurous activities and less craft, my unit only does craft about 3 times a year anyway.

No boys asked to join yet but I would leave if my unit team accepted one.

The Scouts policy is certainly not clear - for sleeping its a bit woolly:

All young members should be involved in advance when planning trips away to make sure they feel happy and comfortable with the arrangements.
...
To make sure all members feel included you can:.

• Make a range of different sleeping options available to all members, including mixed-sex accommodation, single and multiple occupancy tents or dorms, or compartment tents with single rooms in them that a young person could discreetly use.
• Speak to the young person discreetly about what would make them feel comfortable and included. Avoid making assumptions about what this will look like, but be aware that having access to a private space may be important.
• Ask who they'd be happy to share accommodation with/

I note no reference to making sure the girls are happy if a trans girl wishes to stay a female tent!

But for toilets and showers they go on to say:

Trans young people should be able to use the toilets or facilities of the gender they identify as. (My emphasis)
...
These practical ideas will help you to make sure everyone feels comfortable:

• Providing mixed-gender (also known as ‘gender neutral’) toilets wherever possible

So certainly not the alternative in my opinion. Just because there are male and female tents doesn't solve the issue of where a trans child may be sleeping
https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/lgbtplus/transgender-and-gender-identity/supporting-trans-young-people/

Guiding is 'for girls' but they accept self ID. So no, it's not single sex..
In practice I haven't come across any males but it's probably a matter of time.
GG have announced the closure of British Guiding Overseas. Effective as of September. So that's 60,000 plus members they're shedding. And the closure of all of their activity centres. No consultation with members and complete refusal to disclose data they have used to make this decision apart from very general headlines.
It looks like an organisation in free fall at the moment. Plus it's owed something like £2.6 million pounds (and highly unlikely to get back) from hiving off part of their HQ in London to a hotel company that went bust (if I've read that correctly)
Very sad to see tbh.

So that would mean it's the adult leaders who are 'protected' to enter the female spaces under the characteristic gender reassignment then?

Guides absolutely isn't single sex in practice. It's openly transgirl welcoming, there's been some national stories about trans girls etc.

There is zero guarantee.

It's still mixed sex

Wow foxleasr is going :( . Apparently guides like having adventures in their units and near their homes (adventure is everywhere!)

Hmmm. This view just further entrenched the girls staying at home/near home and scouts actually going out Doing Stuff doesn't it.

Like pp I was very much for a female only space and loved it myself and wanted it for my girls until we left. I'm sad to see girls guiding basically choked to death from inside. By men.

Males have no right under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment to join Guides, they have the right not to be treated less favourably than other males without the characteristic.

Exactly. Their protected characteristic doesn't mean they must be admitted to the Guides, but that they cannot be barred from the Scouts.

Under 18s are not legally able to change sex so are not protected under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Do scouts apply appropriate sex-based segregation at camps etc?

I’m not sure on trans rule however my daughter was in the scouts - and is now a leader - and they were super efficient over girls not sharing facilities with boys. She absolutely loved it and, after spending time at camps where both scouts and guides were there, she insists it is way more fun than guiding

Guides have decided to sell off their residential activity centres so staying there will no longer be an issue.

In practice Guides is single sex. My dd has gone rainbows, brownies, guides. No males of any age at any point.

I think it is a shame not to have the opportunity for single sex extra curricular activities, which is why I sent her to guides not scouts.

We did the same, Scouts has been brilliant, girls and boys doing actual fun activites like building fires, camping, rock climbing etc etc. And girls aka females have separate tents and fascilities.

Yep, separate girls tents on camps when I was younger, and also now (my daughters are both scouts).

I am yet to see what happens in our local group if a boy who identifies as a girl joins. I'm assuming that this person will be put in to the girls' tent. Suffice to say I'll be passing on some feedback before that happens and asking a) if pregnancy has been added to the risk assessment and b) why all tents can't be mixed sex.

And I'll enjoy pointing out the misinterpretation of gender reassignment as a protected characteristic while I do.

And are the girls' rooms/tents available for use by transgirls i.e. males, if they wish to use them?

And does Leaders of the same sex mean that, or Leaders of the same gender?

This is the Scouts guidance on "supporting trans young people". There is virtually no mention of the effect on other young people who are not trans.

https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/lgbtplus/transgender-and-gender-identity/supporting-trans-young-people/

Yup we've moved over to scouts over this. I hate so much that they've "girlified" guides. It's the opposite of all it stood for- now girl= stereotype feminine. It's in the curriculum and badges too (bloody cake decorating instead of cooking) .

Scouts have been fantastic. Great selection of activities. Separate girls tent on camps.

In my area, a few girls are in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts. They either have separate rooms/tents or share with the Leaders of the same sex, as far as I am aware.

Scouting takes safeguarding very seriously

As a girl-only charity we accept young members who are biologically female (under the protected characteristic of sex) and those whose gender identity is a girl or woman (under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment). This means that we would accept trans boys as new young members based on their sex.

This is such a common misconception though isnt it? Thanks to Stonewall and their ilk 'getting ahead of the law' and training organisations in what they'd like the law to be, not what it is.

Having the protected characteristic of gender reassignment does not mean that you have to be treated as the gender you want to be. It means you can't be discriminated against because you have the protected characteristic. The comparator for whether a transwomen has been discriminated against is not a woman, it's a man. Males have no right under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment to join Guides, they have the right not to be treated less favourably than other males without the characteristic. On this case, they are being treated more favourably than other males - I wonder if a boy without a gender identity would have a case against Guides on the grounds that they are discriminating against him?

@Chilledp

I'm now wondering the same. My daughter is on a waiting list for the local one but in beavers she did a sleepover with the boys. Maybe that's ok because they are so young. I'm feeling like a bit of a hypocrite because I didn't object to the girls inclusion.

Saying that they did have a girls tent and they were all in a hall for one night

Ah, so they've not moved forward on from the stereotypical "girl" activities of yesteryear then.

That's exactly why I left and went to scouts. My brother was doing far much more fun stuff so I wasn't going to miss out on that.