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Original poster

Tavistock top doctor accuses Dr Cass of 'nepotism'

43 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 09:18

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65687697

Dr Butler spoke at EPATH conference and questioned Dr Cass' actions and integrity.

'In the recording, which was then handed to Newsnight, he was also heard questioning the personal integrity of Dr Cass. He implied there had been, what he referred to as, nepotism around the choice of two hospitals in the south of England as the sites for new clinics - suggesting Dr Cass's previous involvement in them both had been a factor.'

Decent article from a Newsnight investigation, also includes comment from a detransitioner.

A sign for the Tavistock centre

Tavistock: Top doctor questions need for change at gender clinic

The senior doctor is recorded questioning why changes to the controversial Tavistock clinic are required.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65687697

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 14:06

Yes, nils. It was inevitable that if Cass poses a threat to the grift, she'd get personal attacks.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 24/05/2023 14:06

Helleofabore · 24/05/2023 11:58

MrsO

I fear the same.

"But referring to the hospitals, which will form these new hubs, Prof Butler appeared to question the need for a more diverse workforce, telling the conference that none of the staff had "any experience of management of gender incongruence in young people". He added: "It's shocking.""

It is almost like this doctor doesn't want the best outcome. But to continue with indoctrinated medicos providing the same low standard of care.

"experience of management of gender incongruence in young people"

What is 'gender incongruence'? People like him should be made to define their terms unambiguously. And then we'd see that 'gender incongruence' just means not adhering to regressive stereotypes and/or being same-sex attracted. Then he can explain why any of these children need to be medicated.

nilsmousehammer · 24/05/2023 14:05

SO the response to the very inconvenient findings of the inquiry is to try to smear and discredit the person leading it.

Which does absolutely nothing to change the established facts, just throws a lot of mud at the whole thing in the hope of smearing the PR to the general public and so continuing to get away with stuff.

Yeah I'm sure I know this grubby tactic. Well.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 12:52

I think that word 'holistic' isn't going to go down well, is it?

Seems Dr Butler and others want to both avoid scrutiny and avoid losing the grip they currently have on the service.

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 12:51

Ach, cross posted, Mrs Overton!

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 12:51

'There has been some public debate about the importance of training for staff in these new providers and I am taking an interest in how this develops, given the influence that this will have on the operation and culture within the service and ultimately the experience of the children and young people accessing the service. From my perspective, as Chair of the Review, it is vital that the emerging clinical and managerial leadership team within the new providers has oversight of the programme to ensure that both the training and the trainers adhere to the frameworks, values and approaches that they are developing. I am sure that in the near future there will be a training needs assessment of staff who will be working in the new services. Many of these clinicians will bring transferable skills and expertise and the needs assessment should inform development of the training programme to ensure that it is tailored to the evolving workforce. The training programme should be flexible and iterative, with the option to draw in experience from a wide range of experts in relevant related areas, in order to ensure that a holistic approach is maintained, and that the newest research is translated into clinical practice.'

From the latest diary entry of Dr Cass.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/05/2023 12:50

Worth noting:
All children should receive "the same high standards of evidence-based care".

"it is vital that the emerging clinical and managerial leadership team within the new providers has oversight of the programme to ensure that both the training and the trainers adhere to the frameworks, values and approaches that they are developing".

systematic reviews looking at social transition, psychological therapies, outcomes of medical intervention and changing epidemiology".

"there are still critically important unanswered questions about the outcome of hormone treatments"

YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/05/2023 12:20

I've just seen that there is a new blog post on the Cass Review page (dated May 9)

https://cass.independent-review.uk/entry-9-learning-together/

Entry 9 – Learning together – Cass Review

https://cass.independent-review.uk/entry-9-learning-together

RoyalCorgi · 24/05/2023 12:12

Apart from anything else, that's not what 'nepotism' means.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 12:03

It's possible the old guard will not be able to accept Cass' findings and/or recommendations.

If that's the case, and they are unable or unwilling to use evidence based care to treat children, then perhaps they shouldn't be involved in the NHS at all.

OP posts:
Signalbox · 24/05/2023 12:01

It's hard to believe they are taking anyone from GIDS management to the new service. Will Polly Carmichael also be involved? It's starting to look a bit farcical at this point.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 12:00

I'm glad to see Newsnight documenting this. I wonder if Hillary Cass is aware of the EPATH conference, or even attended?

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 24/05/2023 11:58

MrsO

I fear the same.

"But referring to the hospitals, which will form these new hubs, Prof Butler appeared to question the need for a more diverse workforce, telling the conference that none of the staff had "any experience of management of gender incongruence in young people". He added: "It's shocking.""

It is almost like this doctor doesn't want the best outcome. But to continue with indoctrinated medicos providing the same low standard of care.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/05/2023 11:28

As I posted on the other thread - this demonstrates what many have warned about. That the involvement in the new systems of key personnel who have been responsible for the current unethical, unevidenced treatment of children will result in the same outcomes. Cass insists that children's holistic needs are addressed while Butler has presided over administering life shattering medication to children on the basis of a gender affirming approach.

His comments indicate that he'll continue down the same path and needs to discredit Cass's demands for safe, evidence based medicine that takes account of the child's holistic needs

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 09:38

Oh, bugger, missed the other thread.

Interesting, that OP has a very different take on it than I got. I saw this as an investigation into Dr Butler's personal attacks on Dr Cass.

OP posts:
nettie434 · 24/05/2023 09:30

There's another thread about this too:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4812750-highly-selective-newsnight-report-re-gids-dr-speech-at-epath-conference

I hope there's a lot more scrutiny of this. It was included in the 8-8.10 news slot on the Today programme. I realise that Professor Butler has said his remarks have been taken out of context but I am surprised that someone asked to develop a new service seems so wedded to the old one.

“Highly selective” newsnight report re GIDS Dr speech at EPATH conference | Mumsnet

There’s a rather confusing article on the BBC website about a Newsnight report on comments made by “one of several people tasked with implementing a n...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4812750-highly-selective-newsnight-report-re-gids-dr-speech-at-epath-conference

borntobequiet · 24/05/2023 09:28

I heard this on the radio this morning and was quite surprised at the accusation of “nepotism”. I’ve lent my Hannah Barnes book to someone so can’t check, but didn’t Butler come out of it pretty badly?

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 24/05/2023 09:26

I’m not sure why Prof Gary Butler hasn’t been totally discredited after having read Hannah Barnes’ book. Some people have absolutely no shame