Partner could have been trans ----

I think that's really interesting and something talked about a while ago. Is life simply easier for butch lesbians to present as male?

A documentary on the BBC a few years ago described it in young lesbians as having much improved social currency. Going from a masculine woman who doesn't fit in, to a cool, cute little trans man. I somewhat blame LGB organizations for not improving the status of butch lesbians and just focussing on representation of effeminate gay men.

I know a circle of butchies and I often wonder if some would've transitioned if they were teens now. It seems to me the only answer could be yes so I think your partner is just being honest.

Luckily she's looked after her health and attracted a caring partner who loves her for who she is without going down the trans route.

I think about this a lot as a younger woman who dates androgynous/masculine women, it's something we as women/feminists/etc are going to deal with together. I remember reading a tumblr post about some intergenerational lesbian group where a young woman (20something) said "raise your hand if you've ever disidentified from being female" and like half the younger women put their hand up, not just the masculine ones either. The older women were really shocked.
You can follow a woman on tumblr who goes by Kittyit, I think she has a substack or something as well. She and her girlfriend Max post a lot about this stuff. (It might seem weird to mention tumblr on here seeing as how much of a harm that place has done, but there's a strong radfem sub-presence on there with a lot of young women posting about this stuff!)

There are so many people who think it is a very bad idea to be trans (the opposite of accepting yourself for who you are, unnecessary if you just ignore gender stereotypes, and physically damaging) but who think that if they had been young now they might have thought they were (wrongly).

I think your girlfriend must have suffered a great deal of internalised homophobia when she was a young girl brought up by nuns in Ireland. This is well recognised as a reason for young people to think they must be trans instead.

I'm opposite sex attracted but have never been "girly". If this nonsense had been around when I was young people would have told me I was male and I might have opted for it since I formed male friendships more readily than female and hated periods. Fortunately for me I'm old enough to know what a mistake it would have been. I'm married, with an (adult) child.

If trans is so wonderful then women like me would now be transitioning in droves. We are not - and young people need to hear that.

Just to add that none of them (my lesbian friends) would dream of transitioning now and all are happy to be women, but they don't find it at all difficult to understand how a confused, unhappy young butch dyke from a homophobic family and with no one else a bit older and more confident to show the way, might decide that life would be easier if they could pass as a young man.

I'm a lesbian. Lots of my butch lesbian friends, some of them not so butch, say that if they'd been growing up now instead of 30-50 years ago they could easily have been tempted down the trans route. We grew up in a society where there were no lesbian role models and where lesbianism was never talked about. If transition had been offered it would have probably seemed like a sensible way of dealign with the 'problem'. It's how they've been tackling homosexuality in Iran for decades.

Isn't it more a reflection that she's a happy butch lesbian but has she been subject to trans ideology as an impressionable teen then she could have taken a path which would not ultimately have been good for her? Couldn't she be saying that she's glad to have been born 40 years before all this nonsense?
I was a total tomboy - no interest in make up or clothes, wanted to climb trees and dig holes, boys weren't interested in me etc etc. i hated puberty and the changes to my body. I can totally see how girls like the one I was hear "actually maybe you're uncomfortable because you're not really a girl" and think it solves the issue of being a teenage girl being really hard.

We are both of an age where gender equality in career prospects didn't exist. She would have loved to have trained in a hands-on apprenticeship (sparkie, plumber etc) but girls weren't allowed to do so, so she has spent her working life in admin rather than practical roles. (at my school, my sister was forced to do cookery & needlework whilst the boys did woodwork &metalwork, which would have been my sister's preference - ah the good old days!!)

Well yes. I belong to more or less the same generation and there were no female football teams, for example. Only boys got to use the gym equipment in my primary school. I knew I couldn't dream of being a pilot because women weren't allowed, etc. etc.

In Ireland in those days women had to stop working when they got married.

So I, personally, would have jumped at the chance of becoming a man, even though I'm not same-sex attracted.

That is one of the things that makes me so very angry with children being taught this rubbish at schools, when you see the ensuing harm to their health and happiness.

The stories behind almost all adult transitions are ful of homophobia, sexism and abuse in childhood.

Transition in these scenarios makes some sense. The failures of the wider environment causing people to modify their otherwise healthy bodies isn't a million miles away from what women feel they have to do to their bodies in our patriarchal society.

I have sympathy for all people who feel these pressures. Your GF is sadly not unusual in how she feels. It is heartbreaking that young girls now still lack visible lesbian role models and are more likely to think of it as being a porn category for straight men.

The obvious solution is to change the environment. Work towards a society free of sexism and homophobia. Make conditions better for everyone. Sadly powerful organisations and charities who could have easily had this as their remit chose not to do that. It is really worth considering why that is.

I appreciate that it isn't this simple but perhaps you need to explore framing this as being pleased that although she grew up in a homophobic environment which was dreadful she was spared the pressure to transition and so has been able to grow up as a proud lesbian woman who hasn't been encouraged to harm herself with hormones and surgery. Isn't it sad that young lesbians are pressured to change themselves rather than accept themselves, and are being physically injured and erased by this modern form of lesbophobia.

I am quite a butch lesbian, I am definitely not trans. The confusing feelings of not being a "conventional" woman is part of growing up lesbian (I was raised in a Catholic environment too). I worry that if I was young now I would have felt extreme pressure to be trans.

It would disturb me a little as well. In fact, I had a similar situation with a partner who said things along those lines. It's scary and it also shows how the trans movement can draw in people who feel they don't fit in or conform to gender stereotypes. Sounds like your relationship is healthy enough that you can express that what she has said weirds you out a little rather than having to bottle it up so that's good.

It sounds like your partner had a difficult time as a young butch lesbian in a deeply shaming, hetero normative culture. It's normal to reflect back in middle life and play around with "what if" scenarios, if I were in your shoes I hope I would be able to show her empathy and support, reaffirming to her how perfect she is now, a complex butch glorious woman.

It seems like a non issue but is it that the fact she has said this is indicating for you that she accepts the tenants of genderism?
Is it that that is upsetting you? (it would be a deal breaker for me if a partner was a genderist tbh)

It would bother me. I've heard quite a few women say "I might have done it and I'm very glad I didn't". But it sounds as if your DP feels she missed out on something.

"I'm not going to upset the apple cart now" isn't exactly an enthusiastic embrace of womanhood.

Your cant choose to be male or female. Your born male or female. Its set at conception.

But if being a lesbian was fully accepted back then surely she would have been happy just to be a girl who likes girls.

Or does she fell like a boy in other ways too??

She didn’t transition though . I think we can have healthy conversations about gender. I do with mine and so much falls into the what if pile. It’s hypothetical. It’s not real. You should both feel safe saying everything to one another, no matter how upsetting it might be. It’s normal for things to do your head in in relationships

Another friend and I have said that if we were teenagers now we'd probably have ended up lesbian. It doesn't necessarily mean anything- it's just a different time.

I know that a lot of butches wonder if they are a man, especially nowadays with all the cultural pressure to transition etc.

Unless she starts calling herself Braydon/ Jadon/ Kaden etc or doing transition-y stuff, I'd just see what she said as a random idle comment.

Another friend and I have said that if we were teenagers now we'd probably have ended up lesbian. It doesn't necessarily mean anything- it's just a different time.

I know that a lot of butches wonder if they are a man, especially nowadays with all the cultural pressure to transition etc.

Unless she starts calling herself Braydon/ Jadon/ Kaden etc or doing transition-y stuff, I'd just see what she said as a random idle comment.

It would put me right off.

The young kids "exploring" being trans today are trying to deal with the exact same sense of alienation she once felt, but unlike your gf they might have to carry the scars of that experimentation on their bodies for the rest of their lives.