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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Everyday Sexism in the Military (and other uniformed orgs)

31 replies

Brefugee · 19/05/2023 14:00

Couldn't think of a really snappy title but don't want to completely further derail the Caroline F thread with all this.

We started a side chat about our military days. I'm going to completely repost my first big one on that, because some of us don't want to wade through that long thread (for various reasons).

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 14:37

Not in the military myself, but lots of friends who are. One issue they always mention is your reliance on your report, for career progression. Seems to give your boss a huge amount of power. One of my friends felt unable to complain about serious sexual harassment and stalking from one of her boss's mates, in case he took it out on her in her report.

Similar can happen in civilian organisations, of course, but typically, you are less reliant on a single individual for career progression, and you have recourse to HR or to approaching another manager. There is a hierarchy, but it is less rigid.

PuttingDownRoots · 19/05/2023 14:31

Something that was said to me in the early days... (nearly 20 years ago)

The men start with respect, and have to work hard to lose it.
The women start with no respect, have to work hard to gain any, and can lose it in a heartbeat.

DH says its better now, but no where near an equal playing field. His cap badge has a more even balance of men/women than most (one of the brains rather than brawn ones) but men still outnumber women and there is still a lit of misogyny.

One of our daughters has military ambitions, its what concerns him the most... not war zones etc, but make twats.

Brefugee · 19/05/2023 14:11

urgh, the cadets. Awful.

When i did my first trade training (gosh this is outing) i was at catterick, Vimy Barracks. We were learning a job men and women could do. The men were usually rejects from a job only men were allowed to do (more out in the field stuff that we women never did. sigh) which paid a lot more. We had bright yellow shoulder flashes, they had bright green. And we were called daisies. And the guys who were training with us were often forced to borrow a handbag from one of us and mince around the classroom if they made a mistake.

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shysquirrel · 19/05/2023 14:06

Happened in the cadets too. Two occasions stand out. Once (age 14) asked, by the commanding officer, if I was going to mud wrestle with another female cadet. Another time that stands out, on a camping trip and one of the supervising adults told me if I was a year or two older he'd show me a good time.

Brefugee · 19/05/2023 14:00

and this one:

and when we had an SOP kit inspection (for those not in the know: it's all the stuff you have in your backpack etc ready to deploy at a moment's notice) holding up the 3 pairs of knickers we were required (mostly we packed PT knickers to stop this) and asking where the matching bras were. Why we didn't have shaving kit. Where are the tampons? They were not on the list - you had to have only what was on the list so that was bullshit, and we started packing shaving kits. Only to be put on orders for having kit we didn't need...
And then if we did have the not-on-the-list tampons in our packs, they unwrapped them and wore them as earrings, chucked them all over the place etc etc.

Mind you, there were 5 black guys in my troop (6 women) and about 40 others - all white men in F-Troop. And we got "men on the left collect your SLR from the armorour, splits on the right clllect your SMG from the armourer, F-Tribe - go over to the woods over there and cut some spears".

Relentless. And i hear it hasn't really changed. So it is beyond belief that this kind of low-level shit isn't happening in every police station in every force across the land.

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Brefugee · 19/05/2023 14:00

I didn't join the police, though i wanted to so badly as a teenager, becuase i was 1 inch too short back when it really mattered.

I did eventually join the army, that great bastion of inclusion and diversity. This was the 80s, i was young, headhunted into exactly the right job for me and running around with a machine gun about 20% of the time. A flippin' good time was had by me.

And yet and yet. There was sexism and misogyny. We were warned about that at the recruiting office to be fair, and as a pads brat i knew it was coming. I didn't realise how bad it would be, and since my father was still serving at the time i suspect i was shielded from much of the worst of it.

But it was relentless. Say we'd all been on exercise for 6 weeks, having each other's backs doing the same job etc etc. Been back a few hours, had a shower and then wandered over to the bar for a pint. Immediately the door opened you'd be hit with a chorus of "get yer tits out for the lads", or some guy would unzip his fly and wave his dick at you. (answer to that? "oh it looks like a penis, but in miniature" - could get you a slap in the face or worse tho)

Or you'd be walking down a corridor in HQ and your major would call you in to his office to say "go to the stores and get smaller lightweights* - they should be tighter than that, so i can see the outline of your knickers. What colour are your knickers, btw?"

Or nightshift, or being on guard at nights and doing a perimiter check. 2 women not allowed out together, so always with a man. With a loaded rifle. And usually a pick-axe handle too. And pawing you sometimes, leering at you.

and worse and worse and more and more. All my ex-military friends have the same stories.

But if we go to a reunion, or write in fb groups and mention any of this? all the guys go "but i didn't see any of that" EVEN THE FUCKERS WHO WERE THE WORST OFFENDERS.

We know the police is a nest of racist, sexist misogyny. Even members of the upper heirarchy acknowledge that. Just not the plod on the beat. Funny that.

*the green trousers

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