Clear distinction between DQ performances for consenting adults and inappropriate sexualised performances in front of children.

With the Teletubbies, apparently. And this:

twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1657872918184087553?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

"A girl in a stroller at the Los Angeles drag and sex convention sits next to a large pink dildo that doubles as a drink container with a straw."

I think that there is a lot of confusing caused in these discussions by the term "drag".

Some seem to use it for any time men dress up as women in theater, or at least when it is a comedic or exaggerated example of that.

But in terms of things like Drag Queen story-times, they are talking about something much more specific - male homosexual drag, a type of performance that is completely tied up in male sexuality and how it interacts with gender norms, and also typically involves performances in clubs with a lot of drugs and sex involved. Also related closely to burlesque.

It's worth noting that the connection to male homosexuality is the reason some wanted to bring this into children's spaces - its seen as a diversity initiative. It is not the kind of male performers dressing up as women to be funny, panto type of drag.

Do you honestly think that if it was clear that a matinee showing of the Little Mermaid Panto was for adults only parents would have booked their children to see it? This was aimed at children and it was not appropriate for children.

From the DSQH website:

"Drag Queen Story Hour UK provide fun and interactive kids shows with amazing and talented drag performers! Drag Queen Story Hour UK wants to show the world that being different is not a bad thing, and by providing imaginative role models for children to look up to, we can change the world book by book!"

I don't disagree with the sentiment of 'being different' not being a bad thing, but even at face value, are drag queens representative of that? And how exactly is a drag queen a "role model" for a little girl? What message does a drag queen give a little girl about her life and aspirations and value in the world - when it's an OTT caricature of an adult woman?

https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.co.uk/about-us

Absolutely agree @hihelenhi

And of course "educational" events paid for with public money are meant to be educational. The purpose of story time for children is, as others have said, is to promote literacy and enjoyment of books. It's not about "enjoyment of an adult art form that moreover specifically mocks and caricatures women."

It really wouldn't be cheered on if it was any demographic in society other than women. It's a blind spot, precisely because it's long been a big part of theatre and of gay male culture so therefore must be "progressive". But if you look at it, it really isn't, is it?

The email that came with the etickets confirmed it was a family show (which you’d expect from a 2.30 panto). The evening show was advertised as 16+.

This is the other issue. What is the benefit TO GIRLS of being read stories by men dressed as grotesque caricatures of the girls' adult selves? This isn't just about gay culture (and I appreciate it hasn't occurred to a lot of gay men that drag could be considered misogynistic from a woman or girl's point of view). It's about a fair inclusive culture for girls too. Can people really not see this? Are boys being presented with grotesque caricatures of THEIR adult selves and being told "this is inclusivity and diversity?"

I think you underestimate the lengths that [redacted] will go in order to access children.

And remember that the [redacted] are not the audience, they are the show.

Do you not think that when they booked an event produced by the Adult Panto Tour that might have been a clue?

No you’re right - the back and white minstrel show was a grotesque racist representation of black people, whereas drag is a grotesque misogynistic representation of women. Plus ca change.

"On the contrary - I'm willing to bet that I understand drag and what it entails far better than you."

Actually, I very much doubt you'd win that bet. I spent the best part of my twenties and thirties in gay clubs watching drag acts, I'm very familiar, indeed, and with both its history and the oevre, but sure, keep making lazy assumptions. Familiarity with it doesn't mean I'm blind.

Did you answer my question about the 'inclusive' benefits to small children of drag story question time btw? I couldn't see you did. I'm not 'ignoring' your comment, I'm disagreeing that a) drag is 'fine' in other contexts and b) that it's not sexualised for kids currently. Perhaps you're less aware than you clearly imagine.

WickedSerious · Today 12:42

I can almost smell the culture.

Ah, sorry - that yoghurt was over a year old. It's wrapped up and in the outside bin now...

I'm old enough to remember seeing The Black and White Minstrel Show on TV. Drag is exactly the same gross parody.
I know that's an unpopular opinion and if adults want to watch it, fine, that's on you.

But how is it a) a positive representation of gay men and b) a positive representation of women to parade before children?

Have DQSH at care homes for seniors. But they never do. Why is that, I don't wonder.?

No it doesn't.

Notbadconsidering

Good question. I can't see a benefit. I have come across some fluffy talk about rainbow families but it's so much murkier now, I really don't understand why it's so important to these people. I mean, there's clearly a huge amount of opposition. Why keep pushing it? And why threaten people who say they don't want it, as this self proclaimed drag defender obsessively does?

https://theshot.net.au/general-news/drag-queens-are-the-latest-and-most-fabulous-targets-in-the-culture-wars-bigots-have-made-a-huge-mistake/

I’m yet to hear a good explanation as to why having a man dressed as an offensive caricature of a woman, often sexualised in either dress or stage name, reading to children in a library helps advance the visibility and acceptance of gays and lesbians in society.

How do kids exposed to this, even if it’s not a twerking predator getting dollar bills stuffed in his G string, but a nice pleasant story from a normal person in drag, gain any education other than “some men dress funny to read stories”?

What is the actual point?

Once there is no active harm from a particular art form, that is where public policy interests end.

Schools and libraries are paying for drag queens to perform to children, with public money. So this is simply incorrect.

And who are you to say there is no active harm to little girls, or indeed little boys, from seeing women being grotesquely caricatured and mocked?

*ignore the word fail in 3rd paragraph please!

In Melbourne councils are holding an emergency meeting on far-right protestors to drag story time.

The wilful blindness is incredible. It's also mothers, far right or otherwise, that don't like it, but no one seems to be capable of recognising that.

I have actually attended many storytimes, and while I agree that drag queens are sexualised by definition and they mock women, I also fail think they completely take away from what storytime is about, which is stories.

I have never seen a male librarian do storytime. It was women's work. It's so absolutely boring and predictable than when a man deigns to read to children he has to make it all about him.

The reader is conveying the story. Any decent author or reader or listener will know that. Story time is about developing children's love of literacy, which will in turn develop their empathy and open mindedness.

These people are narcissists and grifters and attention seekers and they just want an audience. It's boring.

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/dorking-parents-appalled-after-kids-26326053.amp

In theory this makes sense. In reality however, sexualised drag is being pushed on young children at ever younger ages. There was a drag panto (The Little Mermaid) on in Dorking Halls (Surrey) this year which was completely inappropriate for young Children. The venue ended up having to reimburse parents to the tune of over £3500 and they had over 50 complaints. Parents had no idea what they were exposing their children to.

JFC

I can almost smell the culture.

There was a drag convention recently that parents brought their kids to in LA, it doesn't look like a place kids should be to me. This is the trouble with normalising drag for kids.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1657872257409257472