Labour/ Lib Dem coalition after next GE - possible?

I know the Greens would likely prioritise it as an issue although atm they are not mentioned as part of a coalition

I do agree they’ve held SNP over a barrel and been fairly destructive given their size

For Lib Dem I’m trying to envisage what they’d prioritise, would they bother going for PR as they lost the AV referendum in 2011 and although it sets them up as a party if it wins, I doubt it would in this current climate. Post Brexit big change maybe not so appealing and you get a big concession not to be squandered

Then there’s EU matters, Starmer idiotically signed up for Brexit voters with his position but would they go for this?

Self ID how strongly do they feel about it?

Anything else they could go for..

Out of all the coalitions SNP or Greens would worry me more, Lib Dems is it possible to go to EU stuff or is it really gender stuff they most care about

Or, what @MargotBamborough said.

Oh, I 100% agree with you. It's just that even knowing that {Labour are misogynistic-no-debate-in-love-with-their-own-righteousness-up-their-own-arses} there's actually many many levels of crazy beyond where Labour are at, and the other so-called progressive parties are absolutely bathed in it. And unlike Labour (who will have to govern somehow), the minor parties can demand all kinds of utter batshittery because that's all they have to think about.

I explained above.

Basically I think that the Lib Dems in particular are even more extreme than Labour on this issue, but they don't get as much attention because nobody really cares what the Lib Dems think about anything. Labour are getting a certain amount of pushback on this, frequently being asked the "what is a woman?" question and having unflattering opinion pieces about them written in the media for their incoherent stance. They know it is an issue even if they don't want to admit it. Starmer clearly knows it is.

So the way I see it is this. If Labour wins an outright majority, Starmer might say to his cabinet, "We need to tread carefully, look what happened to Nicola Sturgeon, we need to bring the general public round to our way of thinking on this one, so yes, we'll bring in self ID but maybe not straight away, let's get some brownie points first, let's give nurses a pay rise or improve the trade deal with the EU or something most people approve of, then when we've got enough support we can talk about self ID."

If Labour has to form a coalition with the Lib Dems, the Lib Dems will most likely say that reforming the GRA is a priority and there's no reason why Labour should disagree because they've consistently supported that, so let's get it done quickly and then we can negotiate a position on the more complex policy issues.

I appreciate this, but I can’t see what you are all
looking at when you say least dangerous as they look on a par.

Labour won’t answer so not sure where better on this comes from? I just see it as the same but trying to avoid backlash

Maybe the manifestos will help. But if they put in ‘modernise’ the GRA and refuse to say what that means I’ll still have no idea

Men refusing to answer women on this question is more maddening than anything. How dismissive

None of these wankers are getting my vote. I still have an opinion on what the least dangerous outcome would be.

Did you see Mark Drakeford insult and shutdown a perfectly reasonable question on women’s rights from Laura Ann Jones the other day?

Starmer too says no one is discussing it so he won’t either

If they won’t engage for your vote pre election why would they after they win?

I think I would prefer to see Labour win an outright majority if there's absolutely no chance of the Tories staying in power, simply because then Labour can do what they want to do rather than needing to negotiate with the Lib Dems or other small parties.

@MargotBamborough I agree with this too. Better to have Labour getting an outright majority, and we can focus our efforts on (the few) reality-based grown-ups in the room who understand they have to actually govern competently, than to have them hostage to the loony smaller parties who will need their glittery fantasies feeding.

With any of the other parties in power there won't be a discussion though. It will be self ID, meaning that in a very real sense women will no longer exist as a distinct category of people with our own needs, and we will have to wait at least 10 years before we can even try to reverse that.

It's like Brexit. I think there would now be a clear majority for rejoining the EU if it were an option, which it isn't. And I think there would be an even clearer majority for giving up some sovereignty in exchange for a better trade deal with greater alignment with EU law so that British consumers can stop getting spanked so much with price rises and stock shortages. But there's also a consensus that it is too early to start making the argument for rowing back on what has been done in the last few years, and that that conversation can't start until the hard-line Brexiters are no longer in power, or have died in significant numbers, or the British population have suffered so much that the conversation can't be put off any longer.

The same thing will be true of self ID, if it comes to pass. Even if a majority of the population understands that it is a bad idea within a very short time after it is done, or even before it is done, once it is done we will have to wait a very long time before there is any political appetite for undoing it.

I get Labour GC voters are more conflicted on which way to go so the coalition issue is a way out if you feel Lib Dems are worse

I just don’t see evidence of that. Look at Drakeford, Scotland, Starmer and Lammy type statements

It feels like wishful thinking

I will vote though as agree with pp it’s important (not for Labour though)

It's quite a large party with a spectrum of views on different topics. On this they are the only option in my area.

I have GC sympathy and I can't get my head around how anyobe could vote Tory after the last 13 years. They are not sympathetic to women (did you see JRM on Trump?) or rights in general. They've done nothing about police culture. I'd rather have a viable country where you can start to have discussions than continue with this spiral.

I don't know whether I can bring myself to vote Conservative, but I am not ruling it out at this stage. I wrote to my MP about the Equality Act debate on 12th June and will wait and see whether I get a response to that. If I get a positive one I might write to him again about other trans issues and if I'm encouraged by his responses I might consider voting for him.

If there's a sensible looking independent candidate I might vote for them.

I have previously voted for Dr Louise Irvine (she was conveniently an option during my Lib Dem hiatus) and I so wish I could vote for her again because she is strong on women's rights, but she doesn't stand in my constituency anymore. (That should also tell you who my MP is, if you're interested.)

Not voting is not an option here. Suck it up and vote for the only candidate in your constituency who clear on this issue. Otherwise others will get in by default. It's as simple as that. No game playing as it's too important.

That said, I am not going to vote Labour (it wouldn't make any difference in my constituency even if I did because I vote in a Conservative safe seat). I'm just, for the first time in my life, not going to cast a vote against the Conservatives.

I think the Lib Dems, Greens, Plaid and SNP are all worse than Labour on this issue and my worry is that if there is a coalition then the things the different partners all agree on are likely to get done as a matter of priority, i.e. self ID.

I've been a Lib Dem voter for most of my adult life but they are completely down the rabbit hole on this issue. They have actually said, "If you don't agree TWAW, don't vote for us." (Well, fine, I won't!) That says a lot about what their priorities are. One of their councillors seems to spend her whole life on Twitter scolding people for "misgendering" convicted rapists, ffs. They sold their voters down the river over tuition fees and I stopped voting for them for a while because of that, then I gave them a second chance after Brexit because they were the only party taking a clear anti Brexit position. But that's done now, they failed to move the dial even one iota, now all this trans nonsense, there's absolutely no point in voting for them.

I'd like to vote Green but they're no better on this issue, and in any case, in the last election the only candidates in my constituency were Tory, Lib Dem and Labour.

I think I would prefer to see Labour win an outright majority if there's absolutely no chance of the Tories staying in power, simply because then Labour can do what they want to do rather than needing to negotiate with the Lib Dems or other small parties. Yes, that probably does still mean self ID. But there's an outside chance that if enough shit hits the fan between now and the election, they'll quietly dial down their position on this issue and maybe delay it for a bit. I do think the Tories are the only party that really does understand electoral arithmetic, and that there are a lot more women who need single sex spaces and don't want to be referred to as people with cervixes than there are trans people. But after the Tories, I think Labour are the most likely to understand this point, and I don't think they actually want to come to power after nearly 15 years of Tory rule and then immediately do something which makes them about as popular as Nicola Sturgeon is right now. Parties like the Lib Dems and the Greens don't worry about that because they've never won an election and never will, so they can afford to take an ideological position rather than a practical one.

I hate to say this, because it's genuinely awful, but the most helpful thing right now would be for more evidence to come to light of women being harmed by trans women.

I will not vote for a Labour Party that has committed itself to Self Id, and that continues to leave their own Mps unsupported ( Rosie Duffield). Furthermore my own local Labour MP refuses to meet with her constituents on this issue. She says it is a manifesto commitment and that we are wasting our time.

I think there are many Labour die -hards who are looking for the tiniest slither of hope that Labour will wake up; but in this hope they are deluded. It is all there in B&W and not one memeber of the shadow front bench is suggesting anything otherwise. Believe them!

And Labour in Scotland too

I keep seeing this about a Labour majority

Why are people so sure Labour will be any better on this?

Looking at Labour in Wales and hearing Starmer I’m not seeing why others are so convinced

No chance I’ll vote for that but the posts asking people to give them a majority are interesting

My best guess is:
Conservatives are going to pretend to care about this issue as it resonates well with their core voters. Sadly not because they give a toss about women but because they hate anything off centre. Used to be gay people but no more so just have immigrants and trans as easy targets.

The Conservatives have nothing left to fight on as they've fucked the economy & law and order & immigration, their usual go tos, so will have to go in hard.
For us GC lot this is a difficult one. It's good as it raises the issue and highlights the problems of lack of protection for women's spaces etc. However, it also plays into the hands of the "TERFs are bigots" lot as aligns us with the traditional bigots (the conservatives).

This makes it harder for Labour. They are (fucking slowly) beginning to realise the issues are separate from the bigotry but have dug down too much.
However, Keir is woolly about issues and goes to the popularist majority to chase the votes (Brexit, immigration, benefits) and is basically Tory-lite.

if Labour then need to have a coalition to be in power this issue could be forefront and Lib Dems might use it.

The best thing to do for us is then to make sure Labour win with a healthy majority. Obviously the Tories won't win or be ina position to be in coalition unless there is a world war or something.

If this is your voting issue then think hard about who to vote for. A Lib Dem coalition could be a disaster. Be better to have an outright Labour majority.

I think if enough shit goes down before the election with the Cass Review, Mermaids, men in prison etc. there's an outside chance Labour might claim they need to focus on economic recovery first and they'll get round to self ID as soon as they can in order to kick it into the long grass for a bit.

That's all I've got.

@drwitch My guess is lots of people are privately realising the problems with self id and will look for any excuse not to have to push the issue

Agree with you, Self ID could be the next Lib Dem’s “student loans” debacle which i’m sure they want to avoid.

I also hope the full Cass report comes out before the next election, which should protect children.

If it’s in the manifesto I don’t think the Lords can do much about it

I think the fall out behind the grr in Scotland will convince liberals not to push this in coalition. They will be happy to accept something like a royal commission.

My guess is lots of people are privately realising the problems with self id and will look for any excuse not to have to push the issue

I agree with this!

Also I think that it won't just be Lab/LD, but a more broad informal coalition of so-called "progressive parties" being in the ascendancy. This being because the electorate are (rightly) desperate to get the Tories out, and as we've seen in the local elections, are getting quite effective at tactically voting.

I think we'll be seeing full-on hardline TWAW everything in the next parliament.