Page 7 | Time to dust off your Labour Party membership and support LWD

Forwarder · 2023-05-05T08:35:14+00:00

The only mainstream party that currently acknowledges biological reality took a bit of a pounding yesterday (results so far). Spoiled ballot papers ain't going to cut it. From these results we might get a Labour Libdem coalition next time, if not outright Labour majority. Either way, that means full steam ahead for Self ID. If you are still a member of the Labour Party, Labour Women's Declaration is trying to get GC candidates on the National Women's Committee and push back at the MRAs who run the party. The nominations go in this month and next. LWD running an advice session soon. [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65475817 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65475817]]

Sausagenbacon · 05/05/2023 15:52

No. I think he's a cowardly mealy mouthed fucker who can't even pretend to care about women convincingly.
This

Floisme · 05/05/2023 15:46

Ermm what I said was that I didn't think there was any hope of changing Labour from the inside. Short term, pragmatic action, including still entertaining the thought of voting for them in 2024 - yes I will listen to that. And as I have said, I have a lot of time for the LWD and wish them all the best. But rejoining and all it entails? That, I consider a waste of my time and energy, which I could use to other ends. I don't appreciate that being framed as capitulation.

Chersfrozenface · 05/05/2023 15:44

Well, provided the Labour Party doesn't freeze/throw you out as soon as you mention the subject.

Original poster

Forwarder · 05/05/2023 15:35

Bitteraftertaste · 05/05/2023 09:50

I have talked to various friends about this issue. It seems women are bothered and none of the men are that bothered. One male friend accused me of being as bad as a racist because it was marginalising an entire group.

My closest friendship is with a woman and we met in the trade union movement. We were talking about this just yesterday. Left wing men have always been overall deeply misogynistic in our experience.

I suppose all you can do is point out that it's not one marginalised group. That there are different factions under the trans umbrella. For me the people most harmed have been the thousands of girls and women who have messed with their bodies and now regret. There are boys in that category too, but fewer in number.

And once you remove all checks to the process any creep can abuse it. Karen White, Isla Bryson etc.

Depending on the situation, if you feel brave you might raise the AGP issue.

I say this like I'm some brave battleaxe squaring up to growling old Labour hard guys. I haven't managed that yet!

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Original poster

Forwarder · 05/05/2023 15:26

RoyalCorgi · 05/05/2023 13:07

I'm sorry but I no longer believe Labour can be changed from the inside. I think their problems start from the inside.

I think we have to try. What's the alternative? There's every chance the Tories will lose the next election, so we have to make sure that the next government supports sex-based rights. Otherwise we'll be back to where we were six years ago.

I agree Royal Corgi.

Based on today's results Labour will probably get into power as a majority or in coalition.

Saying there's no hope, spoiling ballots etc is capitulation. The genderborg has spent years infiltrating every aspect of public life. It is time to push back, calm and persistent.

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Floisme · 05/05/2023 14:14

Oh I might still lend Labour my vote in the general election, if only because I fear a hung parliament / coalition more than I do an overall majority. And I still think they can be persuaded to avoid self ID. But rejoin and spend time and energy working for deeper change from the inside? Sorry but I think that's futile.

And because I think it's futile, I'd consider pretty much any alternative to have more chance in the long run, be it more sophisticated cross party working between women, a single issue party, direct action or better still, a combination of all 3. Now you can critique any one of those all you like and I'd probably agree with much of it, but I still think they're more likely to be effective than trying to change Labour from within. That's how hopeless I think it is. They're a feed-the-men-first party and I think they always will be.

YukoandHiro · 05/05/2023 13:43

"Left wing men have always been overall deeply misogynistic in our experience."

Absolutely. Nothing new here.

guinnessguzzler · 05/05/2023 13:29

I was literally just thinking this @Forwarder as I was looking at the local election results. I know lots of women have given up on Labour and I absolutely don't blame them. However, I think we need to be realistic about what might happen next and helping Labour to sort its shit out on this issue is vital. Not just because they might be in power but also because I think Labour speaking out on this would help many who have mistakenly fallen for the bullshit thinking they were being progressive and kind to come to their senses. Starmer clearly understands the issues and is desperately trying to find a viable way forward (viable meaning whatever maximises his vote 😂). I hope that recent developments in Scotland will help him in his thought process.

ArabeIIaScott · 05/05/2023 13:08

zibzibara · 05/05/2023 13:08

Does anyone else think that Starmer has quietly peaked in recent months? Unlike the rabid transactivists such as Russell-Moid, he seems very reluctant to be drawn on the issue any more. I suspect he looked at the evidence in his usual forensic manner and concluded the same as anyone else who does so.

No. I think he's a cowardly mealy mouthed fucker who can't even pretend to care about women convincingly.

ArabeIIaScott · 05/05/2023 13:08

Floisme · 05/05/2023 12:40

I have loads of time for LWD. Their resilience is extraordinary and I believe / hope they might yet persuade Starmer against a full endorsement of self ID. And they do it without (as far as I can tell) having a pop at other women who do things differently.

But

I'm sorry but I no longer believe Labour can be changed from the inside. I think their problems start from the inside.

I'm afraid this seems true.

zibzibara · 05/05/2023 13:08

Does anyone else think that Starmer has quietly peaked in recent months? Unlike the rabid transactivists such as Russell-Moid, he seems very reluctant to be drawn on the issue any more. I suspect he looked at the evidence in his usual forensic manner and concluded the same as anyone else who does so.

RoyalCorgi · 05/05/2023 13:07

I'm sorry but I no longer believe Labour can be changed from the inside. I think their problems start from the inside.

I think we have to try. What's the alternative? There's every chance the Tories will lose the next election, so we have to make sure that the next government supports sex-based rights. Otherwise we'll be back to where we were six years ago.

SunnyEgg · 05/05/2023 13:03

Whatthechicken · 05/05/2023 12:50

I think it’s too late, we’ve been trying to persuade for years, there’s what 18 months left? In the last year it’s all blown up - thousands of Labour women voted with their feet, a woman raped in a hospital bed, paedos in refuges, rapists in women’s prisons, the downfall of Mermaids, the downfall of Sturgeon…if that didn’t make them realise the consequences, persuasion from inside with such a short time to go isn’t going to work. I admire them so much and it certainly can’t hurt, but we can’t fool ourselves.

I don’t know what the answer is, action on a national scale? I’m feeling quite down about it all today.

Show quote history

I think it’s too late too

They don’t need to change if they think they will win the GE anyway.

It is very depressing and I’ll join you in feeling down about it

Igneococcus · 05/05/2023 12:54

Older women are welcome in my CLP but terrified to speak out.

How do you change any party from the inside when you are too scared to speak out?

Whatthechicken · 05/05/2023 12:50

Floisme · 05/05/2023 12:40

I have loads of time for LWD. Their resilience is extraordinary and I believe / hope they might yet persuade Starmer against a full endorsement of self ID. And they do it without (as far as I can tell) having a pop at other women who do things differently.

But

I'm sorry but I no longer believe Labour can be changed from the inside. I think their problems start from the inside.

I think it’s too late, we’ve been trying to persuade for years, there’s what 18 months left? In the last year it’s all blown up - thousands of Labour women voted with their feet, a woman raped in a hospital bed, paedos in refuges, rapists in women’s prisons, the downfall of Mermaids, the downfall of Sturgeon…if that didn’t make them realise the consequences, persuasion from inside with such a short time to go isn’t going to work. I admire them so much and it certainly can’t hurt, but we can’t fool ourselves.

I don’t know what the answer is, action on a national scale? I’m feeling quite down about it all today.

Floisme · 05/05/2023 12:40

I have loads of time for LWD. Their resilience is extraordinary and I believe / hope they might yet persuade Starmer against a full endorsement of self ID. And they do it without (as far as I can tell) having a pop at other women who do things differently.

But

I'm sorry but I no longer believe Labour can be changed from the inside. I think their problems start from the inside.

Original poster

Forwarder · 05/05/2023 12:12

Older women are welcome in my CLP but terrified to speak out.

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zibzibara · 05/05/2023 12:12

I don't think they'll try to introduce gender self-id after seeing what happened when the SNP tried. Starmer seems to know fine well that this is an issue that could tear Labour apart if he starts focusing on it.

Original poster

Forwarder · 05/05/2023 12:11

IME, ie my old dad, older men are now ashamed of the way they used to talk about gay men. They think the next step is to reform their views on 'trnnis'.

Good that your gay comrade is GC. (I know Tories don't have comrades)

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Needmoresleep · 05/05/2023 11:51

Forwarder, I agree.

I chose to stand for the Tories. It wasn't quite toss a coin, but faced with the choice between a local party dominated by young militants, or joining a sort of third rate golf club, the choice was easy. Both are boys clubs, but at least the latter know what a woman is and will buy you a drink. (I am also being a bit unfair. Even though the culture is a bit alien and some views to the right of Atilla the Hun, there are some very good people, including a couple of long serving, hard working and sensible female Councillors.)

I think some local Labour parties would be quite tough and would not be welcoming to older women.

I agree with men not being interested in women's rights. My colleagues have been fine on gender stuff, though I suspect they took their lead from an openly gay man. If he had disagreed with me I don't think I would have got a hearing.

Original poster

Forwarder · 05/05/2023 11:37

My observation is that women in the Labour Party have to be publicly supportive of Men's Rights agenda if they want to get ahead. I can't see that they would get selected otherwise.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 05/05/2023 11:27

I agree, OP.

Original poster

Forwarder · 05/05/2023 11:22

@Needmoresleep 'entryism from the centre' - I like it. Were you a candidate yesterday?

Yes few men care about this at all. Perhaps they are secretly pleased to see arguments about sex/gender equality come round to be used against us women.

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Needmoresleep · 05/05/2023 10:32

Forwarder · 05/05/2023 10:21

What does Posie Parker have in her manifesto? I admire her but trying to set up a party from scratch takes many many years. Better to take the manifesto to existing parties.

The MRAs have worked from the inside, not just in political parties. Women need to do the same and challenge them on their own insitutional turf. It won't happen immediately either as they have a 20 year head start.

I agree.

Apparently 60% of people do not know how they will vote in the next election. My impression is that local Labour parties have, led by activists, have drifted to the left. At the same time local Conservative parties, dominated by older and affluent men, have drifted to the right. Both have lost touch.

I agree that founding a new party is not the solution. Women's rights may be one issue we here may agree on, but there will be many others on which we don't.

I would love to see a form of entryism from the centre, from that 60%. Women's rights might be the motivation, but once in, sensible moderate people can effect change.

The aim would be to see the two major parties compete for votes based on real and appealing policies and the promise of forming a government of good, honest and competent people.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 05/05/2023 10:25

Yes, Plaid prop up Labour in Wales and women are the ones who suffer.