Time to dust off your Labour Party membership and support LWD

I'm not quite as despondent as some of you but maybe that's because I'm not in the Labour Party and have no intention of returning.

I actually think 12-18 months offers a decent amount of time, not to turn everything around but to scupper some of the most damaging stuff. If this were a football match there could still be around 20-30 minutes left to play.

Starmer has got to be forced to talk about this. In public. I don't care how much it makes him squirm. But I think the 'What is a woman?' question is getting tired and needs some new approaches.

I do think this year is crucial - that's one flaw with KJK standing against him, by then it could be too late to get people's attention.

As for Labour majority being a better bet why do pp think this?

Looking at Labour in Scotland reaction to bill and Labour in Wales I’m not seeing opposition to gender ideology. The reverse in fact

If you are pro Labour you might see them as better but is it just wishful thinking?

I feel strongly but very despondent

Starmer doesn’t want it discussed, voters don’t really care

I’m not going to join the Labour party to try to convince them women are not dinosaurs

It’s such an abhorrent view I won’t forget or forgive it

People can vote as they wish but if the world looks even more like NZ under Labour in five to ten years time then they voted for it. Not much anyone can do about that. Our poor dc inheriting this, indoctrinated even

So, with what 12-18 months max, women are now going to have to expend some serious mental energy and social capital in turning around this leftist freighter that is heading slowly in one direction only? I hope you all have unlimited supply of very strong coffee, wine etc.

Even now respondents here are frayed on what language to use.

Mention trans. Or not.
Mention gender. Or not.
Mention ideology. Or not.
Mention child safeguarding. Or not.
Mention women's safety. Or not.

I mean, how surreal can you get? Unfortunately, the majority of left activists, Lab LDs Grns SNP PldCymru, and most of their MPs incl those on front benches, are fully active TRA minded.

And we're viewed at best as irrelevant, and at worst as sexual racists.

My conclusion is that the ONLY way for the worst case scenario to be avoided is for Starmer to get a big majority, where he'll have elbow room to resist the urges of the TWAWs in his party and the batshittery of the smaller left parties.

If it's a small majority, or he tries a minority Labour administration or a coalition, I believe he'll melt like a chocolate fireguard.

At that point the back up plan is that this all collapses while a principled politician on this policy like Kemi Badenoch leads the Tories and is ready to head a small Tory majority after snap GE in 2025.

I meant to write ideology not ‘idealist’ sorry

I’d be more specific and say Gender Identity idealist/politics/whatever wherever you can.

The word gender on its own, is still deliberately used in a fudgy way to mean lots of different things so so probably best to avoid it ourselves where possible. It’s the tying or foisting of sex stereotypes (gender) to a core sense of political identity that’s specifically troubling here so keeping the word ‘identity’ closed linked to gender seems important.

Plus the foundational point that ‘gender identity’ is also a cover for a men’s sexual rights and access to women and children campaign.. and that for men who are seeking that access for abusive goals, the ‘identity’ cover gives them a golden ticket regardless of how those men perceive their own identity. This a gift to any man keen to dismantle safeguarding and get himself into the women’s toilets..

I will also be using the accurate phrase ‘Data Corruption’ taken from this excellent speech by Tonia Antoniazzi, the Labour MP for Gower, reported by James Kirkup:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/mps-are-finally-engaging-with-the-gender-identity-debate/

HT IwanttoRetire for flagging up that article, and who has also a started an important thread about (an opportunity to contact MPs ahead of) a key debate in Parliament on 12 June. Very helpful to have notice of it in time to keep pressing MPs of all parties for a position on this: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800027-debate-relating-to-the-definition-of-sex-in-the-equality-act-2010-will-be-in-westminster-hall-on-12-june-2023-430pm?reply=125989601

I usually avoid using terms like "ideology", at least to begin with, and instead focus on some specific harms of gender self-id laws that we've already seen happen in other jurisdictions that introduced it.

I've found it takes a bit longer for people to see the big picture and the underlying patterns, they usually need to have some doubt introduced first to the idea that this is progress.

Absolutely start with the Tories. I hope Conservatives for Women will be holding the government's feet to the fire until they clarify the Equality Act, and I agree with Needmoresleep that there are sound strategic reasons for Sunak to get it done this year. If I were Sunak, I'd be looking for some quick wins to chip away at Starmer before he (Starmer) starts to acquire that prime minister in waiting aura, and I can't think of a better than this one for making Starmer look shifty, foolish and not in control of his party.

As for Starmer, I think it's about pushing both from the inside and the outside. He's clearly desperate not to talk about the issue - are LWD going to be the ones to force it? I can't see it because, while I think they've made some impressive progress, they're hidebound at the end of the day by parties rules and party loyalties. But that's something people outside the party can do.

Nrtft but this is a really important topic. Agree GC women need to engage as much as possible with elected and aspiring political parties over the next 12 months. And raise the profile of this issue directly with the voting public, via social media and print/broadcast comment and also by creating media opportunities to talk about it (thank you KJK).
And we won’t have the full picture of the local election results until next week.

Whatever the final picture in these locals, we can safely assume that there will be no strong Tory majority at GE next time. Even if they do somehow manage to snatch GE victory from the jaws of defeat.

So we need to be speaking to all parties including the Tories. The current Sunak administration must be so happy and relieved that the coronation has come along to wipe the Tories’ losses at local level off the news agenda. Which is annoying because moments of weakness like these are really helpful leverage to try to demand clarity on key issues.

Eg When are the Tories going to reform the EqA and in what way will they reform it? Will they commit to review of GRA (with a view to repeal) to take place after the EqA has been appropriately reformed to distinguish clearly between sex and gender? What more needs to be done for schools? Free speech at work and place of study etc? Hospitals? Prisons?

Yes she recognised it’s what cost her.

How is she playing a blinder? Prancing around with a sword at the Coronation means nothing. She lost the Tory leadership race, from a strong start, because she thinks men can become women.

Yep, Theresa May also fancies another crack at things. How about Crispin Blunt?

You think the TRAs on the right aren't pushing their policy narrative Reality? Penny Mordaunt is playing a blinder and Jamie Wallis is growing his hair.

In every poll, there is majority support for trans not to be victimised, to reflect any gender they please. We're a tolerant and easy going peoples.

However on the topics of trans expecting the law to accept they've actually changed sex, thus men accessing women's sports, sex segregated safe spaces, support plummets like a stone.

Indeed, 100% of that small number of people who say they fully approve of men being able to access women's spaces seem to reside in leftist parties in the UK.

That's why it's impossible for trans to be anything other than a luxury belief and beyond a minor concern for the population at large. Hardly anyone believes that transition is possible, and trans rights to most people is not understood as men claiming they can transition.

It remains only a burning topic for TRAs in leftist parties pushing their policy narratives, and GCs on our side who are taking it upon ourselves to mount the resistance.

That's why I fear this battle is lost with Labour, the best we can hope for is a healthy majority for Starmer, so he's in a position of strength to face down his progessive activists.

In a Hung parliament or minority Labour govt, he'll have almost no power to resist pressures from his activists and the evangelists in the LDs, Greens and SNP.

That isn’t correct. Most younger people support people being able to live as a gender identity different from their bio sex, but support for legal self-ID is much more equivocal, even in Scotland, which is more Left-leaning than the U.K. as a whole. Analysis here

If labour get elected I don't think there will be any way to change their misogyny, of which they are proud. Conservatives are awful but when we lose a meaningful definition of woman, then we're truly fucked. I think it's a case of lesser of two evils and let's be honest, they are now both evil. It depends on what you think is the best option long term tbh. Clearly in the short term, women will continue to suffer under either party.

People can try and great if you do it

But I doubt it will work. Labour have been pretty awful with established MPs who object

Dinosaurs - that’s their thinking

The Tories have already abolished women's rights. In spectacular fashion and on multiple levels. All the parties have got this wrong but the Conservatives are the ones who put it into policy and practice.

I agree that changing parties from the inside is the way forward.

Labour are not going to reopen Sure Start centres.

All they say on this is that by 2030 they can (not will)

• Give all families access to high quality, affordable childcare
• Revitalise children’s and youth services

It's all a bit woolly and vague, no mention of how they intend even trying to acievd the above.

Sorry, I didn't mean you personally Permanent, I just meant it generally. Can people join multiple political parties at the same time?

Do lablut though? They are a party for me who are happy to abolish women's protections. Can that really be said to be a party with a concept of the collective?

Not perfection just not erasure of biological truth

Looking for perfect? Not going to happen. Best outcome. Least bad outcome, perhaps.

Tbh in terms of caring about themselves I don’t see much in it

Labour will say anything to win, whether it’s on Brexit or this issue

All parties look for their own survival first