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Original poster

Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.

184 replies

aweegc · 05/05/2023 06:50

Prevent, for anybody who doesn't know, is the government's counterterrorism programme targeting radicalised/extremist Muslims. Schools are obliged to report cases of extremism or radicalisation to it, similar to reporting safeguarding concerns.

I have to say that I'd thought about Prevent being used for some transactivists, it had never occurred to me that Muslims would be silenced this way. Although, now I hear this, it is too obvious a tactic to have overlooked and it's utterly despicable.

So, I just came across this on Instagram. A British Muslim man approached his nephew's school on behalf of his sister, because she was really unhappy with her son bringing home a "book promoting transgender lifestyle". He thought it would be an easy discussion where he was mediating between two women (I'm not commenting on that part - separate issue). I've transcribed it for anybody who can't access the video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CriblPHol5d/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Transcript:

He says to the head teacher, "'My sister's worried about a book that promotes the transgender lifestyle. If you were going give this to the children or put this in the library, why weren't parents consulted.?' She just went on the offense....When I started to speak to this lady, walahi [I swear to God], it was just a click. When I started to speak she said,
'The way you're talking, we'd have to refer you to Prevent'.
I said, 'What's Prevent?', because at the time I had no understanding.
She goes, "The way you're speaking is very extreme."
I said, "I haven't said anting to you extreme. All I've said is that we don't feel comfortable with our young, innocent nephew being sent home with a book called Princess Boy without the consultation of the parents.'
She goes, 'Well I don't care, it's the Equality Act.'
So my question to her was, 'Well where's my equality then? If it's the Equality Act, and we live in a secular society so there's a full range, a marketplaces of views and everyone must be respected, regardless of how we conflict with one another.. She wasn't having it.'"

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Rowthe · 05/05/2023 09:53

Lamelie · 05/05/2023 08:04

Well obviously the government was hardly going to pass a bill targeting radicalised Muslims but it is effectively what it is.

Show quote history

Agree

The people who are being targeted know when they are being targeted

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 05/05/2023 09:52

...Not to say that there aren't a lot of people who are rightly on those lists, whatever political 'side' they fall on.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 05/05/2023 09:51

As PP have said, the Prevent Programme is not reserved only for Muslims. It’s for all extremists, including the far right.

Regardless of this particular case - and man - I think one massive problem we currently have is that there are people who might be described as 'far left' - often militantly and violently so, and who would very ironically consider themselves as 'liberal' - who for some reason are never included in the groups of extremists that are being watched and prevented.

Rather than being on the 'dangerous' watch lists, as they clearly should be, they are the ones compiling the 'dangerous' watch lists and filling them up with everybody who disagrees with them and is brave enough to state it publicly.

WarriorN · 05/05/2023 09:48

Just watched the prevent advert in my Gp surgery; the main character who's radicalised is white and named John.

mirax · 05/05/2023 09:48

mirax · 05/05/2023 09:44

People should read Shak Afsar's instagram and other social media posts carefully and make up their minds about whether to take him at his word.

Here is his insta account.
https://www.instagram.com/shak_afsar1/

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/shak_afsar1

PurpleBugz · 05/05/2023 09:45

The book isn't about a boy liking "stereotypically girly items" it's about a princess boy who likes "girl" items. If it was breaking down gender stereotypes it would not assign the items to girl/boy like it does

mirax · 05/05/2023 09:44

People should read Shak Afsar's instagram and other social media posts carefully and make up their minds about whether to take him at his word.

Original poster
aweegc · 05/05/2023 09:43

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 05/05/2023 09:34

I am GC and am not convinced the man's objections are rooted in GC beliefs....more likely conservative beliefs. Talking about 'transgender lifestyles' and having a man stepping in to sort out the issue seems to sit within a different set of beliefs

I'm sure you're right, but does that invalidate his views? If we have true diversity and freedom of expression, there should be room for them.

I agree.

OP posts:
Original poster
aweegc · 05/05/2023 09:42

mirax · 05/05/2023 09:34

I recognised Shakeel Afsar, the speaker in this story and he is a trouble maker as far as I am concerned. He was raising hell during the riots in Leicester last year and there has been a history of islamist agiation against LGBT education in schools for a long time. Some of it has morphed into anti-gender ideology. Do be careful and check the antecedents of some of these people.

I didn't check who he was because I didn't see how to as I don't follow him or whoever the account is.

However, I do know that what he's saying isn't impossible. That's why I posted. I had never thought of Prevent being used to silence people who believe in biological sex (regardless of their cultural, political or social leanings).

If he's making it up, then he's a liar. And I don't support that. And he's doing nobody any favours.

It doesn't sound entirely implausible to me though, sadly.

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 05/05/2023 09:42

oldwomanwhoruns · 05/05/2023 09:34

No-one so far seems to have commented on the "It's the Equality Act" statement by the teacher.
It is a worrying statement, and it is incorrect.
Gender Ideology is a neo-religion. It is not enshrined in law, & schools should not be pushing it at kids

Ah yes you are right. I picked up on that but got distracted by looking the book up.

Completely misquoted the equality act. And actually had it backwards because gender critical or Muslim or any belief are protected but not at the expense of others

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 05/05/2023 09:34

I am GC and am not convinced the man's objections are rooted in GC beliefs....more likely conservative beliefs. Talking about 'transgender lifestyles' and having a man stepping in to sort out the issue seems to sit within a different set of beliefs

I'm sure you're right, but does that invalidate his views? If we have true diversity and freedom of expression, there should be room for them.

oldwomanwhoruns · 05/05/2023 09:34

No-one so far seems to have commented on the "It's the Equality Act" statement by the teacher.
It is a worrying statement, and it is incorrect.
Gender Ideology is a neo-religion. It is not enshrined in law, & schools should not be pushing it at kids

mirax · 05/05/2023 09:34

I recognised Shakeel Afsar, the speaker in this story and he is a trouble maker as far as I am concerned. He was raising hell during the riots in Leicester last year and there has been a history of islamist agiation against LGBT education in schools for a long time. Some of it has morphed into anti-gender ideology. Do be careful and check the antecedents of some of these people.

IcakethereforeIam · 05/05/2023 09:33

The priest (vicar, deacon,...? I forget his name) who was sacked from the private school for a sermon that wasn't 100% supportive of Lgbtq+ was initially referred, by the school, to Prevent. So, though it was set up in the wake of acts of terror by Islamic extremists, it doesn't just target Muslims. Not now anyway.

Original poster
aweegc · 05/05/2023 09:33

Bloody hell! I think you need to educate yourself sharpish!

Do you? Really? On what part exactly? Please be clearer so I know what I need (re)education about. Cheers.

OP posts:
tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 05/05/2023 09:32

izimbra · 05/05/2023 09:15

There are a number of posts on mumsnet talk at the moment that seem pretty suspect to me.

This is one of them.

Posts that seem intended to provoke a reaction against - for want of a better word - 'wokeness'.

😒

I've been away from the Talk boards for a few years. Come back and they're awash with people being pissed off with benefits claimants, and GC ranting.

Is this what it's like here now?

I've just had a quick look on Active and there is the usual random mix of topics so perhaps you happened to look when it was indeed awash with the areas you mention.

To say it's all GC ranting is a bit unfair I think. There's lots of GC anger at how certain ideologies are harming women and kids but those discussions are on the whole pretty civil. But I wouldn't call that ranting.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 05/05/2023 09:24

Justme56 · 05/05/2023 07:48

I am not sure why the teacher suggested that his views were extreme, she may have disagreed with them but extreme is an over stretch. Obviously he is speaking very calmly in the video and unless you were there you won’t know how it actually played out. We live in a society where we are asked to tolerate others views and if in his opinion a boy being a princess is seen as subject that requires a conversation then a conversation should be had not a referral to Prevent.

I agree with this too. Hearts and minds and all that

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 05/05/2023 09:22

PinkFrogss · 05/05/2023 07:23

Isn’t the princess boy just about gender stereotypes anyway? I think I read a thread about it, and it’s a boy who likes stereotypically girly items, but there’s no mention of how this makes him a girl.

Apologies if I’m getting confused, but if not then I do think it’s a bit Hmm for him to go to the school complaining basically that they are not encouraging gender stereotypes.

I agree with others that what he’s saying does not quite add up.

I've also not watched the video or read the book but did Google it and this is the impression I got too - I could be wrong - and the boys parents recognise this as part and parcel of how kids at his age experiment so embrace it and give him space to do so freely. No indication of transition.

IF I have this right then I'm uncomfortable with any parent/guardian demanding this isn't discussed. It's absolutely right to trample stupid gender stereotypes down and allow our kids to express themselves. This isn't the same as denying biology and telling a child they cc'd n change sex

Zodfa · 05/05/2023 09:21

Yes, of course, our precious government would never introduce a policy with covert racist intentions whilst pretending it affected all groups equally, all praise our glorious leaders, may those who question them be interred and re-educated, etc.

izimbra · 05/05/2023 09:15

There are a number of posts on mumsnet talk at the moment that seem pretty suspect to me.

This is one of them.

Posts that seem intended to provoke a reaction against - for want of a better word - 'wokeness'.

😒

I've been away from the Talk boards for a few years. Come back and they're awash with people being pissed off with benefits claimants, and GC ranting.

Is this what it's like here now?

PurpleBugz · 05/05/2023 09:15

ScrollingLeaves · 05/05/2023 08:40

PinkFrogss · Today 07:23
Isn’t the princess boy just about gender stereotypes anyway? I think I read a thread about it, and it’s a boy who likes stereotypically girly items, but there’s no mention of how this makes him a girl.

It is about gender stereotypes, you are right, but it pushes it to an extreme as the little boy is always dressed as a princess girl, it isn’t just dressing up, and he is shown as targeted and a bit of a victim in how other children treat him.

It does not also show how everybody sometimes likes things usually associated with the other sex. His father and brother are shown as typical males and we are told the brother likes baseball. He could have been shown with a little girl friend who likes trousers and a tee shirt and baseball, and he might be shown playing baseball with her too. Does he not like sports because he likes to wear a dress?

The underlying message is that the child is different in an extreme way that could make that child grow up thinking they have another gender from their sex if they are also taught this, which seems likely. It is very binary.

One very good point though is that it never calls the little boy ‘she’.

I disagree. I've just read the book and it refers to "girl dresses". Also i question the title "princess" as that is female.

I would fully support the book if it just said "dresses" and didn't constantly say "princess boy" it could easily challenge stereotypes with something like 'awesome boy'. I'm absolutely against gender stereotypes but I don't agree that's what this book is about

Prescottdanni123 · 05/05/2023 09:07

@Lamelie

Prevent is used to tackle all kinds of terrorism such as far right groups and homophobic groups for example. Not just Muslims.

Swansandcustard · 05/05/2023 08:56

Would people be concerned if this scenario was about a book supporting single sex relationships? This can be an area some strict Muslims (same as Christians) struggle with.

Prevent looks to nip extremism in the bud, any extremism. Taking offence to this book is no different to taking offence over a book about any protected characteristic.

Lamelie · 05/05/2023 08:51

@JoyceMeadowcroft1 @bellac11
I’m genuinely delighted that it’s useful.
As pp have said its original intent is obvious.

RoyalCorgi · 05/05/2023 08:48

Back to Prevent for a moment. It was quite obviously set up to counter indoctrination into Islamic extremism. As PPs have pointed out, the government had to give it a remit of countering all extremism because it didn't want to be open to accusations of Islamophobia.

An independent review into Prevent earlier this year said:

"Prevent must return to its core mission – countering all those ideologies that can lead people to committing or supporting acts of terrorism. This can only be done if Prevent properly understands the nature of these ideologies and how they attract and suborn individuals. It is correct for Prevent to be increasingly concerned about the growing threat from the Extreme Right. But the facts clearly demonstrate that the most lethal threat in the last 20 years has come from Islamism, and this threat continues."

You can read the review here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1134986/Independent_Review_of_Prevent.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1134986/Independent_Review_of_Prevent.pdf