Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.

184 replies

aweegc · 05/05/2023 06:50

Prevent, for anybody who doesn't know, is the government's counterterrorism programme targeting radicalised/extremist Muslims. Schools are obliged to report cases of extremism or radicalisation to it, similar to reporting safeguarding concerns.

I have to say that I'd thought about Prevent being used for some transactivists, it had never occurred to me that Muslims would be silenced this way. Although, now I hear this, it is too obvious a tactic to have overlooked and it's utterly despicable.

So, I just came across this on Instagram. A British Muslim man approached his nephew's school on behalf of his sister, because she was really unhappy with her son bringing home a "book promoting transgender lifestyle". He thought it would be an easy discussion where he was mediating between two women (I'm not commenting on that part - separate issue). I've transcribed it for anybody who can't access the video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CriblPHol5d/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Transcript:

He says to the head teacher, "'My sister's worried about a book that promotes the transgender lifestyle. If you were going give this to the children or put this in the library, why weren't parents consulted.?' She just went on the offense....When I started to speak to this lady, walahi [I swear to God], it was just a click. When I started to speak she said,
'The way you're talking, we'd have to refer you to Prevent'.
I said, 'What's Prevent?', because at the time I had no understanding.
She goes, "The way you're speaking is very extreme."
I said, "I haven't said anting to you extreme. All I've said is that we don't feel comfortable with our young, innocent nephew being sent home with a book called Princess Boy without the consultation of the parents.'
She goes, 'Well I don't care, it's the Equality Act.'
So my question to her was, 'Well where's my equality then? If it's the Equality Act, and we live in a secular society so there's a full range, a marketplaces of views and everyone must be respected, regardless of how we conflict with one another.. She wasn't having it.'"

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Lesserspottedmama · 21/05/2023 09:49

I would absolutely be complaining if my child came home with such a book. If not just for the content alone, but the calibre. I’ve just looked up said book and I am flabbergasted at subjecting children to such vapid bilge. Wasting their time on brainless tripe to satisfy adult agendas when there are many thousands of rich, vivid children’s books of the highest excellence out there. Disgusting, I have nothing but contempt for this school.

NicCageisnotNickCave · 21/05/2023 09:48

izimbra · 21/05/2023 09:45

You refer to "Increasingly trans activists are calling for violent action against women" and link to this article as evidence of this.

Can you C&P from the article where the author is calling for violence?

Also - referring to people as 'fascists' might be insulting but it isn't 'dehumanising'. And given that Posy Parker's has attracted support in Australia and the UK for her position on the rights of trans individuals from white supremacist groups that are openly and proudly fascistic, it's a bit ironic...

Show quote history

There are loads of threads about Posie in Aus & NZ. The search function is on the top right of your screen.

izimbra · 21/05/2023 09:45

Signalbox · 20/05/2023 21:01

Do you want to give some examples of this that you're aware of, of where organised leftist groups have been involved in plotting violent action?

Increasingly trans activists are calling for violent action against women who campaign for women’s rights / spaces / sports etc. This article (linked) in the Anarchist Federation magazine “Organise” dehumanises women by calling them fascists and then calls for a “militant anti-fascism” in response (which is referring to the techniques used by organisations such as AFA against the BNP) to deal with the problem. It results in the sort of dangerous mob that we saw in NZ as a response to the KJK visit.

https://organisemagazine.org.uk/scratch-a-transphobe-pt-2-how-can-we-respond-opinion/

You refer to "Increasingly trans activists are calling for violent action against women" and link to this article as evidence of this.

Can you C&P from the article where the author is calling for violence?

Also - referring to people as 'fascists' might be insulting but it isn't 'dehumanising'. And given that Posy Parker's has attracted support in Australia and the UK for her position on the rights of trans individuals from white supremacist groups that are openly and proudly fascistic, it's a bit ironic...

takeawayonme · 21/05/2023 09:40

Prevent is also aimed at people like the London nail bomber (white supremacist) I can absolutely assure you of that.

IneedanewTV · 21/05/2023 09:34

Lamelie · 05/05/2023 08:04

Well obviously the government was hardly going to pass a bill targeting radicalised Muslims but it is effectively what it is.

Show quote history

Exactly. We all know what it is for and who it is aimed at.

izimbra · 21/05/2023 09:32

"its good to read from the other side, it gives me strength for the resolve to defend women’s rights, so easily brushed aside when there are others wanting to push women out!"

My rights to equal pay, safe maternity care etc, are threatened by the existence of the 0.2% of the population that are trans women?

I'm 57. The only time I've ever knowingly been in the same room as a trans woman is when I went to see a show by a trans entertainer.

Can you explain the mechanism of how I'm going to lose maternity pay etc (ie, my sex based rights) because of the existence of trans women?

NicCageisnotNickCave · 21/05/2023 09:27

Left wing extremism?

https://www.counterextremism.com/content/far-left-extremist-groups-united-states

American website but as we know, we import their stuff pretty directly when it comes to youth movements 😬

Also, that all black get up you see at anti-woman protests is a tactic they call ‘black bloc’ (walking along with cardboard signs a la what happened to billboard Chris in Oxford was a half arsed version of a Black Bloc protest tactic)

Black Bloc originated in Europe in the 80s, was imported to the US fairly recently via ‘AntiFa’ and then back over here in the Americanised form:

https://www.counterextremism.com/supremacy/black-bloc

Shelefttheweb · 21/05/2023 09:07

flashbac · 21/05/2023 07:57

Is this the review by William Shawcross? The person criticised for being one-sided?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/08/prevent-scheme-failing-to-tackle-non-violent-islamist-extremism-review-says

"Britain’s former top counter-terrorism officer has said parts of the government-backed review of Prevent appear to be driven by a rightwing ideology and are “insulting” to professionals fighting to stop attacks on Britain’s streets.

Show quote history

Is that an article in The Guardian? A hugely biased left wing news source? Sorry but I don’t give any credibility to The Guardian ‘the WiSpa incident was made up by the right wing and the cologne New Year’s Eve event didn’t happen’ these days.

Empowermenomore · 21/05/2023 08:44

Thanks for the article @Signalbox it explains the surge of men in black abusing women on the LWS events.

Dangerous indoctrination!

its good to read from the other side, it gives me strength for the resolve to defend women’s rights, so easily brushed aside when there are others wanting to push women out!

flashbac · 21/05/2023 07:57

Shelefttheweb · 20/05/2023 22:02

At the moment most prevent cases are far right as are most terrorist incidents.

Since this Independent Review of Prevent was commissioned in 2019, six terrorist attacks have blighted our nation. These took place at Fishmongers’ Hall (November 2019), Whitemoor Prison (January 2020), Streatham (February 2020), Reading (June 2020), Southend (October 2021), and Liverpool (November 2021). In addition, shortly before this report was completed, a British citizen held Jewish civilians hostage at a synagogue in Texas (January 2022). All these attacks were Islamist in nature.

Is this the review by William Shawcross? The person criticised for being one-sided?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/08/prevent-scheme-failing-to-tackle-non-violent-islamist-extremism-review-says

"Britain’s former top counter-terrorism officer has said parts of the government-backed review of Prevent appear to be driven by a rightwing ideology and are “insulting” to professionals fighting to stop attacks on Britain’s streets.

Former counter-terror chief hits out at ‘insulting’ findings of Prevent review

Neil Basu claims parts of government-backed review of scheme are driven by ‘rightwing viewpoint’

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/08/prevent-scheme-failing-to-tackle-non-violent-islamist-extremism-review-says

PorcelinaV · 21/05/2023 07:18

Organised leftist groups involved in violence? There was UAF that was bizarrely backed by David Cameron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_Against_Fascism

Unite Against Fascism - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_Against_Fascism

Shelefttheweb · 20/05/2023 22:02

At the moment most prevent cases are far right as are most terrorist incidents.

Since this Independent Review of Prevent was commissioned in 2019, six terrorist attacks have blighted our nation. These took place at Fishmongers’ Hall (November 2019), Whitemoor Prison (January 2020), Streatham (February 2020), Reading (June 2020), Southend (October 2021), and Liverpool (November 2021). In addition, shortly before this report was completed, a British citizen held Jewish civilians hostage at a synagogue in Texas (January 2022). All these attacks were Islamist in nature.

Shelefttheweb · 20/05/2023 21:58

izimbra · 20/05/2023 20:10

"Not so. As I pointed out earlier, Islamist radicalism is not being reported to Prevent as people are afraid of being called out as racist"

Can you share your sources for this assertion?

”Prevent has a double standard when dealing with the Extreme Right-Wing and Islamism. Prevent takes an expansive approach to the Extreme Right-Wing, capturing a variety of influences that, at times, has been so broad it has included mildly controversial or provocative forms of mainstream, right-wing leaning commentary that have no meaningful connection to terrorism or radicalisation. However, with Islamism, Prevent tends to take a much narrower approach centred around proscribed organisations, ignoring the contribution of non-violent Islamist narratives and networks to terrorism. “

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1134986/Independent_Review_of_Prevent.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1134986/Independent_Review_of_Prevent.pdf

BCBird · 20/05/2023 21:05

Prevent is not about Muslims. It is about any radicalisation

Signalbox · 20/05/2023 21:01

Do you want to give some examples of this that you're aware of, of where organised leftist groups have been involved in plotting violent action?

Increasingly trans activists are calling for violent action against women who campaign for women’s rights / spaces / sports etc. This article (linked) in the Anarchist Federation magazine “Organise” dehumanises women by calling them fascists and then calls for a “militant anti-fascism” in response (which is referring to the techniques used by organisations such as AFA against the BNP) to deal with the problem. It results in the sort of dangerous mob that we saw in NZ as a response to the KJK visit.

https://organisemagazine.org.uk/scratch-a-transphobe-pt-2-how-can-we-respond-opinion/

Scratch a Transphobe: Pt 2 How Can We Respond | Opinion - Organise Magazine

Of course, the truth is that there is no such competition between feminism and trans rights, quite the opposite, fascism and patriarchy are the enemy of us all.

https://organisemagazine.org.uk/scratch-a-transphobe-pt-2-how-can-we-respond-opinion/

izimbra · 20/05/2023 20:15

"there are people who might be described as 'far left' - often militantly and violently so, and who would very ironically consider themselves as 'liberal' - who for some reason are never included in the groups of extremists that are being watched and prevented."

Do you want to give some examples of this that you're aware of, of where organised leftist groups have been involved in plotting violent action?

'For some reason' - we have a pretty right wing Conservative government and I'd be very surprised if they've ordered security services to ignore organised violence and terrorism by leftist groups for the sake of 'political correctness'. Is this what you're suggesting is happening?

izimbra · 20/05/2023 20:10

"Not so. As I pointed out earlier, Islamist radicalism is not being reported to Prevent as people are afraid of being called out as racist"

Can you share your sources for this assertion?

jannier · 05/05/2023 17:31

Badgeringabout · 05/05/2023 17:22

Not so. As I pointed out earlier, Islamist radicalism is not being reported to Prevent as people are afraid of being called out as racist (usually by the hard left as with the grooming gangs). So it looks like there is bigger threat from the far right which is not the case.

Show quote history

The reporting is a different issue to the following up and actions though.
Unfortunately prevent isn't working

Badgeringabout · 05/05/2023 17:22

jannier · 05/05/2023 10:02

At the moment most prevent cases are far right as are most terrorist incidents. The media isn't reflecting this.

Show quote history

Not so. As I pointed out earlier, Islamist radicalism is not being reported to Prevent as people are afraid of being called out as racist (usually by the hard left as with the grooming gangs). So it looks like there is bigger threat from the far right which is not the case.

Badgeringabout · 05/05/2023 17:20

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 05/05/2023 09:51

As PP have said, the Prevent Programme is not reserved only for Muslims. It’s for all extremists, including the far right.

Regardless of this particular case - and man - I think one massive problem we currently have is that there are people who might be described as 'far left' - often militantly and violently so, and who would very ironically consider themselves as 'liberal' - who for some reason are never included in the groups of extremists that are being watched and prevented.

Rather than being on the 'dangerous' watch lists, as they clearly should be, they are the ones compiling the 'dangerous' watch lists and filling them up with everybody who disagrees with them and is brave enough to state it publicly.

Absolutely this.

whenwhenwhen · 05/05/2023 16:17

I've been trained in Prevent, multiple times in a school setting. It's definitely not just about muslim extremism - it's about all forms of extremism.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 05/05/2023 14:44

bellac11 · 05/05/2023 07:03

Prevent is not about 'radicalised Muslims', its about extremism that could lead to terrorism, from anyone.

I did think that was an important distinction to make too.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 05/05/2023 14:42

Grammarnut · 05/05/2023 14:31

I think he is acting in a typically male Muslim way, in talking to the school on behalf of his sister (maybe her husband isn't available to do it?), who may feel uncomfortable talking about this. He is his sister's emissary, which seems entirely reasonable to me (though sexist) and he has a right to to this IMO.

We don't know, of course. His sister might be a 4th generation British citizen and a ball-breaking lawyer or something. But, if she is a recent immigrant, it's easy to underestimate how intimidating it can be to deal with authority in a strange country. Most British people would find it hard to confront a headteacher in France or Germany, because of the language barrier, and those are culturally similar countries to the UK. If you add in all the cultural differences between the UK and SE Asia, I don't find it surprising that she asked her brother to speak for her. It doesn't mean, as some PPs have assumed, that he is controlling or interfering.

Grammarnut · 05/05/2023 14:31

I think he is acting in a typically male Muslim way, in talking to the school on behalf of his sister (maybe her husband isn't available to do it?), who may feel uncomfortable talking about this. He is his sister's emissary, which seems entirely reasonable to me (though sexist) and he has a right to to this IMO.