Angry with my non binary brother- how to help SIL

Are there any real men anywhere anymore, ffs

If you really believe this toxic, self indulgent, first world wank, then you must believe he’s not a man, so that means he not only tricked a straight woman into marrying him, but then told her she’d been tricked all this time in front of her friends. He’s been pretending to be a man all this time, which is also illegal when it comes to sex by the way, and now you expect her to put all that to one side because it’s all about his struggles?! If you really believe this, how would you ever expect a straight woman to continue a relationship with someone who isn’t a man?

So how can he be a good person deserving kindness, if he tricked and lied to his wife all this time by pretending to be a man? Or is it just a load of attention seeking bollocks after all?

Demonising your brother is not helpful. Him and his wife will split up, eventually. But he will still have access to his kids. Kids hearing their father being demonised tend to get very upset and may stop contact as they get older with the person doing this.
Just react how you would as if he had come out as gay. Say to him he should have told his wife and kids privately first. And that this is a difficult time of adjustment for everyone and he should be sensitive to that.

Your brother is being unreasonable. I think it's very hurtful and selfish to make an announcement to everyone without discussing it in depth with your partner first. Your SIL isn't transphobic or a bigot for questioning your brother if the change in pronoun is confusing the children. Ultimately, SIL has a choice she can choose to divorce your brother or she can choose to stay. No one would blame her if she wants a divorce after all she married a man.

Non binary is such a strange concept. I think you’re right, it’s mostly about declaring yourself special and different to all the „normal“ people around you.
I know a woman in her forties who started calling herself non binary on social media in the last couple of years. I‘ve vaguely known her for over ten years, nothing about her look and the way she’s presenting herself changed (other than the added pronouns in her bio) - but than again she’s exactly the type to slap a label like this onto herself, to appear different, special and somewhat oppressed.

Honestly, we should. That's the quickest way to make it go away.

Non binary means "I am special, not like you boring normies."

Urgh your poor sister in law. The way he's come out smacks of narcissism and abuse and as for correcting the dcs don't get me started.

I can't imagine how I could stay married in her position. I'm so glad you're supportive of her.

@DancingTortoise such an easy thing to say when it isnt happening you

Maybe we are ALL non binary we should all come out 😃

SIL is quite entitled to say you do you but that doesn’t work for me. If you are at the point of publicly announcing a major life change without speaking to partner first then the relationship is already over.
I’d read Op as the brother coming out as non binary and had assumed perhaps incorrectly brother was wanting to use they/them pronouns but keep their name/dad the same.

You're right. I don't respect a man behaving in very typical male patterns of abuse in a domestic relationship, such as the manipulative behaviour and attempts to dominate and control seen in this post.

Nor do I respect a poster who reads about these patterns and whose instant sympathy and support goes with the abusively behaving male rather than the wife and children being damaged by their demanding and controlling behaviour.

Friend of mine married a. Guy who did the same about 3 months after their wedding. They’re still married but I don’t think she wants to be.

it’s a horrible situation to be in x

Yes, because he is abusing his wife and children. Not because he's decided he is non binary. He could have gone about the whole thing in a much better way instead of acting like a selfish prick.

Let's pretend that the DB has come out to SIL and friends as gay or bisexual, in a group all together, without coming out to SIL in private first and giving her time to process this news.

We would all understand that it's not homophobic or biphobic to state that DB had been utterly contemptuous of his wife by not letting her be the first non-medical (as in, not a counselor or doctor) person to know, in private. We would all understand that she is well within her rights to want a divorce because she thought she was marrying a straight man and has found out that her marriage is founded on a lie.

The same reasoning applies to DB coming out as non-binary. It's not transphobic to state that DB has shown contempt to his wife. It's not transphobic to state that she is well within her rights to want a divorce because she thought she was marrying a man who did not wish to crossdress and was comfortable being called a man.

If DB calls his wife and people who support her bigots and similar, that says a lot more about him than the targets of his abuse.

She needs to be reassured it's not transphobic to continue to be straight and to choose not to be married to a woman. She allows needs to be supported and encouraged to say clearly to all therapists and friends that she is going through a very difficult time as she has lost her husband and is supporting her children in the loss of their father and she and they need plenty of support without being mislabelled transphobes for their genuine confusion.

Is it any different to religion?

Nobody would care if you brother became Buddhist or Muslim but as soon as he tries to inflict it on his wife or kids there is a problem.

If I was in that position, I'd divorce him. I don't have to accept it at all. Afterall I met him as a straight man before we married, it's wrong to change afterwards then demand to be accepted. If I wanted a husband in a dress, then I would have married one, right?! Help your sil not to feel bad for leaving him.

Why should I respect someone who has treated HIS WIFE and children like this?

One good reason.

Not only that, but it's textbook. It's the same pattern of abuse that a number of her recognise.

That's not ok.

I will give respect to those who give respect to women and I won't be held to emotional appeals to 'be kind' to emotionally abusive men. However they identify.

Hardly 'demonising' - anyone of either sex who engages in something that means they centre themselves without interest or care for their partner or children's needs, feelings, equality with themselves, is behaving badly and is not relationship material. It is not all and only about the transitioner. They are not the only person having a hard time.

The demand for sympathy, enablement, that the woman and children in the situation just martyr themselves entirely? It's not healthy, is it?

I would have a whole lot more 'respect' for transitioners such as this if it did not so very often come with a degree of self obsession that is alarming, and apparent abandonment of emotional bonds, reciprocal care for those they previously loved, even the basic social awareness that other people have feelings too. It implies that a lot more is going on than choice. Relationship advice for those in relationships with partners also caught up in things that have absorbed them entirely and blocked their capacity to participate or feel such as addiction, is to protect themselves and children.

No one owes a distressed person their own happiness.

He's trying to tick the right box. Naive q but how does a 'non'binary' dress, half and half male/female?

Such classic abusive tactics - he behaves appallingly by making a huge decision and implementing it without any thought or consideration for her and not even telling her before he tells everyone else. Then, when she protests, she is labelled the abusive/controlling one (TERF, bigot etc) and weirdly, this is supported by a whole bunch of other people so that instead of her having the opportunity to express her upset that she has been treated badly, she becomes the bad guy.

OP - whether or not you are willing or able to support your brother as he transitions or whatever he's choosing to do, doesn't mean you have to support the way his behaviour negatively impacts on your SIL and their children. SIL has the right to say this doesn't work for her and to walk away.

Well, if she sees a therapist by herself, the focus will be on her and her own feelings. That's the point of individual therapy.

Whether or not they attempt couple's therapy will depend, I expect, how how interested they both are in working on their relationship, and if they were going to attempt it, they would need to choose the therapist carefully. Of course some couple's therapist are better than others, but in theory the therapist should be supporting them both to communicate their feelings and needs to each other, and not focusing on one person over the other. In theory!

If I was her I'd be furious that he chose to announce it to her and friends without talking to her about it first. That feels like a betrayal.

I apologise if I did not use the sister in law’s partner’s preferred pronouns.

My broader point remains though. This person has probably been going through a lot, perhaps much of it in secret, perhaps for many, many years. I can well appreciate the shock the SIL will be feeling, and the pain at not having been amongst the first to be told. It may be the martial relationship will not be able to survive this. I don’t know. But they do ideally need to maintain a working relationship of sorts, if only for the sake of the kids.

Demonising a person who is going through gender identity issues is not helpful or humane and will not help anyone. Some of the language being used and the sentiments being expressed on this thread has been less that respectful.