Angry with my non binary brother- how to help SIL

My take on it is simple. Any man (ie a person with XY chromosomes) who says they feel like a woman, then behave as the brother is doing here, absolutely does NOT feel like a woman. They feel (and behave) like a man in a dress.

It's her brother.....

It may be that the way the non-binary person came out was messy and led to more pain than was necessary. These things often are like that, sadly. Coming out can be a difficult process to explain or rationalise

Your politics has made you detached from reality. Everyone, everyone, understands that you have conversations with your spouse before telling the rest of your social circle. The fact he did that is not 'messy', its calculated.

You are not actually doing trans people any favours by trying to justify self-indulgent, narcissism.

Who are we accepting as a ‘her’ in this case? I thought non binary was ‘they’?

Yes please reassure SIL that she shouldn't be afraid or ASHAMED to 'want divorce'. It does not make her a bigot FFS

We are allowed divorce for any reason we like - but heaven forbid we should not be attracted to or want to stay with a man who wants to wear dresses, be spiteful and superior to his wife, confuse his children and spout self-absorbed vitriol. Oh no - how very un-cool.

Furious on her behalf.

I absolutely understand the pain and the shock. Coming to understand and accept the transition would likely be a process. However, if you want a situation where the non-binary parent can be who who they really are and their family relationships can avoid breaking down, then there will need to be some form of accommodation on all sides.

A reminder btw that in the past, when things were less tolerant, gay and lesbian people not uncommonly ended up in marriages with persons of the opposite gender due to social pressure. That could create some very painful situations. Similar to that, in the current age, we do sometimes see people entering relationships and even beginning families before having recognised or come to terms with their gender identities. My heart really goes out to all the people who go through pain in these situations. But let’s not pretend hating on trans people or pressuring people to repress their gender identity is a solution to anything.

It's a live demonstration however of what the trans widows explain experiencing all the time.

That even on a women's rights forum, where a woman quietly asks for support for another woman, there's someone who will dive in to remind her that it's always most important to centre, respect and understand the man.

Rather than be able to focus on the woman and allow her to have even ONE woman centred place where her needs take precedence.

If my dh suddenly became a “lad” down the pub with mates every Friday night we’d split. He wouldn’t be the man I married or the man I love. Your sil can be respectful of her dh’s wishes but that doesn’t have to mean she stands by him. Divorce and move on - her dh didn’t give much thought to her or her feelings in the way he came out.

Why do we keep being told to respect men who show no respect to women? No one deserves or should expect respect.

Respect is something you earn.

What I am sure about is the person’s gender identity needs to be respected and accommodated. The very worst thing to happen would be an avalanche of hate.

Yes and we should completely ignore how the SIL identifies, because all she is, is a support human to her husband and she doesn't have the right to say 'my husband is a lying abusive male who has absolutely no respect for my feelings.'

Never mind the effect on the kids ...

It's ALWAYS about bowing to the man and his hurty feelz.

He explained how harmful it is to use wrong prounouns, etc.

I think I just walked into a Coronation bunting factory.🚩This kind of desire to control what other people say is unnerving. What else does he want to control?

Not all therapists are neutral on gender issues. There are an awful lot that believe that anything remotely gender critical or even exploratory of trans people's reasons for transitioning is automatically transphobic. There is no room for exploring whether mental illness or personality disorder might underlie people's reasons for transitioning, even though there's evidence for this, including the number of people who detransition.

I would recommend speaking to several counsellors over the phone to ascertain their stance on supporting people in your SIL's position. The worst thing would be for her to be guilted by a professional into only seeing her husband's perspective and foregrounding his feelings rather than safely and with support exploring her own feelings about his transition.

What I am sure about is the person’s gender identity needs to be respected and accommodated.

And what about he/she shows some respect and accommodation to the feelings of the wife and children? You've said you have empathy for the SIL and children, but nowhere that they deserve respect and consideration.

I would support your SIL the best you can.

Your DB obviously enjoys the applause for how stunning and brave he is with zero regard for anyone else.

Bullshit.

It's the script.

It's always the same. Always self indulgent 'its so hard' whilst splashing it all over social media.

Even then, 'it's so hard' is not an excuse for the emotional blackmail and abuse he's dishing out.

I'm non binary. I think most people are. Therefore I think it's a pointless label. Much like saying I order sandals in the summer or something else as mundane and irrelevant to other people.

What I am sure about is the person’s gender identity needs to be respected and accommodated

No it doesn’t, especially by the SIL seeing as he hasn’t respected her wish to marry a man and her sexuality. Don’t demand women respect people who have shown them no respect or consideration FFS.

Exactly! your partner was above board and honest. And you were able to make informed decisions based on that knowledge.

This guy is Just being an abusive arse and so doesn't actually deserve much respect right now.

Also tell her she can't be transphobic because non-binary people aren't trans. My partner and I are pretty grossed out by the awful people making actual trans people look like assholes.

@DancingTortoise but he’s genetically a man. The posters SIL married a MAN. Suddenly deciding to identify as a woman when you’re a married man with children and expecting them to just accept it??? You think that’s ok??

The job of a woman who has just been treated like this by their partner is not to have responsibility for respecting and accommodating their partner's new identity.

The partner will have plenty of people lining up to do that. My interest is in respecting and accommodating the needs of the woman, and supporting her in her concerns for their children.

This is sensible advice

An entitled asshole. He has a wife ands kids. At that point just suck it up and get on with your life as a man. Non-binary is just wanting the world to know you're "special" for most people.

No. Just no.
My partner is a transman, but I chose to be with him. When we met I told him my reservations.

Your brother is bein

To be clear, my empathy is absolutely with the SIL and the children, not just with the non-binary person. It may be that the way the non-binary person came out was messy and led to more pain than was necessary. These things often are like that, sadly. Coming out can be a difficult process to explain or rationalise.

What I am sure about is the person’s gender identity needs to be respected and accommodated. The very worst thing to happen would be an avalanche of hate.

I quite agree with the point others have made that it would be understandable if the SIL felt this was the end of the marriage. But that’s a very personal thing, really. It’s down to them, not us. Hopefully though they can maintain a relationship that is civil.