Angry with my non binary brother- how to help SIL

OK so she definitely needs to leave him then.
And might benefit from counselling for herself.
But no point trying couple's counselling. They may need mediation, though, for the separation and divorce.

I echo this.

Tbh, I feel much better just doing my own thing. Not worrying about the guilt. I think a lot of the problem is the social emotional stuff that almost makes you feel hostage to 'being kind' at your own expense.

It's the simple shit that gets to me most - being asked if I've brothers or sisters in a conversation which is supposed to be polite chit chat rather than full on. I don't feel I can lie but it's hard to explain to people you don't know well and have no idea how they will react.

I think getting to the point where I just don't care about other people's opinion has taken me a long time but it's liberating.

Then it sounds like he's set his terms and he's not willing to try and work with her.

Women's Aid and the Transwidows are her best source of how to move forward with what she needs and how to best help the kids through this now. I am sorry.

I feel so sorry for your SIL @Angrywithmybrother , its such a huge, sudden and unexpected change to her and her childrens lives, very similar to that of a bereavement, but with the added bonus that there is an expectation in society at the moment that she must be supportive of her husbands journey down the gender rabbit hole, whether he ends up non-binary, gender fluid or a transwoman.
There is no room for her to mourn the loss of her life as she knew it and the relationship she thought she had, there is only 'Be kind or else' !

@Angrywithmybrother
my brother (30s) also said he was NB before then saying he is a TW. It is not just your SIL’s well-being but the whole family which is being affected. I’ve been on an arduous personal journey the last couple of years and it’s not over. A lot of the support resources are for parents of trans identifying children or in some cases, for wives, but not much for adult relatives of trans adults. I’ve learned a lot but still angry and the analogy to radicalisation is spot on.

Pls feel free to message me if you need to and I’ll share the resources I’ve found. This is tough and it is hard to remember the person your brother is without/before this but it is essential to do so to stay sane.

Your poor SiL, and her poor children.

I think it's highly likely that his true nature will be revealed fairly soon, and he'll go full-on transwoman.

Does she not yet realise her marriage is effectively over! Just on the abuse bit, never mind the non binary bit.I

Can I ask, what was he like before this bomb shell?

yeah, I've thought about it, considered it and like hell am I facilitating the desires of men (you in the other hand, well it depends what your desire are! - I'm covering all bases didn't know if you meant men, and you'd just missed a letter off)

Oh. Interesting. I suppose it must still depend on who is doing the reporting and the moderating then

Because even when they’re in a dress men’s wants and fetishes come above women’s needs and well-being every time - this is due to women’s role to facilitate the desires of me - keep up!

They started ignoring the Autogynephilia posts when an article was published in the Times back end of last year? The article was posted as a thread and it was allowed to stand. So in and of itself it's fine. Obviously probably still seen as an issue if you accuse a poster of being of one but other than that it seems to stand now.

I thought so too, but last week I had a short post deleted and the only thing in it that was contentious was the word 'autogynephilia', which is why I've started asking.

They! Don't be phobic now.

They started ignoring the Autogynephilia posts when an article was published in the Times back end of last year? The article was posted as a thread and it was allowed to stand. So in and of itself it's fine. Obviously probably still seen as an issue if you accuse a poster of being of one but other than that it seems to stand now.

What I am sure about is the person’s gender identity needs to be respected and accommodated

gender is a social construct.
it does not objectively exist.
you can respect someone’s imagination if you want to but you cannot compel anyone else to do so

Didnt think "non binary" meant wearing dresses, that sounds a bit like stereotypical idea of female. If you want to support your brother maybe try and talk to him about gender stereotypes and why he wishes to be seen as female. If you can keep it calm and neutral you could move on to point out how difficult this is for his wife and children and how unkind he has been to her. He is unlikely to go back on this. He will find plenty of online and charity support, including encouraging him to be cruel to his wife and children.

With your SIL I think you have to acknowledge how unkind your brother has been and is being to her. You can recognise that this has fundamentally altered their relationship, that other women in this position have not always wished to stay married and that she will be grieving the loss of her past life. There is very little that truly recognises and prioritises the needs of families. You could point her to the trans widows thread, you could make it clear that whatever she decides to do you wish to remain in contact. If you feel able to do so you can say that this must also be difficult for your brother as he was quite tearful when he told you.

Respect a man with a word I can't say here or I'll be deleted whose entitled selfishness has blown up his family - wake up and have a freakin' word with yourself!

gay and lesbian people not uncommonly ended up in marriages with persons of the opposite gender due to social pressure. That could create some very painful situations.

I addressed this analogy upthread. I'll use some less contentious analogies to illustrate as well.

If a man said to a group including his wife that he hated his job and had applied to a job at the other end of the country, with resultant disruption to the kids' schooling and a house move needed if his application was successful, and he had not told his wife first in private, we would say that he was right out of line and that he should have told his wife before his friends. Many would argue that he should have discussed it with his wife before even submitting the application, so that she knows he's inclined to move for work before having the pressure of discussing a job offer put on her.

I think moat people would say that a man should tell his wife before his friends if he applies to a new job locally, because it's courtesy to let your lawful spouse know first. Some would argue that he should discuss it with his wife before submitting the application, even if the job is nearby or an internal application within the same employer.

The outrage on this thread isn't about "trans", it's about the husband treating his wife with contempt, driving a bulldozer through her marriage and then using his new "non-binary" status as a shield to avoid accountability by calling her a bigot when she objects.

You poor SIL, why on earth would he announce it to friends at the same time as her, don't get who he would do that, Shows a lack of respect. I'm afraid I'd be leaving him I've got all the time on the word for genuine transans men and woman but i feel like the last 12months its just become fashionable and i personally think its more to do with mental health than anything else but saying that outloud make you trasphobic.

I think the kids will need councilling too which i should imagin is a lengthy wait.

This person has probably been going through a lot, perhaps much of it in secret, perhaps for many, many years.

a) I doubt it.
b) If so, that makes his failure to tell his wife first, in private, even worse! If he'd actually struggled like that, he'd surely have some empathy with her, some awareness that he's about to swing a wrecking ball through her life, and would at least grant her the chance to hear it in private and process it, instead of dropping it on her in a group setting.

Personally I'd skip the therapist and just get a good lawyer. Get him out of the house and away from the kids. She has done nothing wrong, he's the one breaking the marriage contract. Let him sort himself out away from the kids and constant gaslighting. As others have said look at the Trans Widows thread, it's a pattern constantly repeated and the women there will understand in a way others cant.

He didn’t even have the basic courtesy to tell his wife in private!

that is highly disrespectful and downright cruel. Why should should a morally bankrupt person who only thinks of himself be respected?

the brother is the person who has to work hard to recreate a working relationship with his wife and kids, because whatever issues he has or has had in the past, he has totally fucked up the lives of his family.