To think trans is the new anorexia?

The same mental illness can differ in the way it appears in different cultures. For instance, hallucinations might be equally common in schizophrenia in France and in India, but what the hallucinations are about is going to differ.

So cultures affect conditions which also have a biological basis. I think the same applies here, too, but even more widely:

It's not just social contagion which we should address, but also the unrealistic images popular culture creates about how women and girls should look, and how not achieving that perfection is used to bully girls, and certainly also how the enormous increases in clearly misogynistic porn and its consumption by ever younger boys affects growing up female today.

When you add all that to the upheavals caused by puberty, to the sudden interest even quite old men start taking in your body, to the increase in harassment etc. it's not really very surprising that many teen girls are depressed and sad and feel powerless.

Ways of regaining some power, and perhaps some (non-sexual) attention from their peers can include self-harming, not eating, refusing to become a woman etc. In other times and places different forms of resistance exist, but I see all of them as forms of protest.

If you have little control over how others see you and how they treat you, at least you can control your own body. That would be the shared part in these responses; how that control happens varies and is culture-specific, though the Internet is probably now erasing many of those cultural differences.

There are some commonalities between the various coping mechanisms, but they are not the same. Likewise, there may be other motivations for taking the types of actions this thread discusses.

But gender dysphoria, body dysmorphia, and anorexia all seem to share something atypical happening in that part of the brain which is responsible for self-perception (e.g. what we see in the mirror as opposed to what the mirror objectively shows).

In that way they are in the same wider family of conditions. (I only know personally about anorexia, having had it, but I did have one of those sudden views of myself I had not mentally prepared for (in a shop window) which somehow showed me the real me (frighteningly thin), even though my mirror did not. So I certainly had warped self-perception until that point in time.)

You mean a lot of the posters telling their first hand experiences of anorexia?

You're obviously not here for a sensible discussion if hearing an opposing view from a group of people discussing their actual lived experience is reduced to "easily offended posters" by you and you're not even interested in learning.

Keep being ignorant but posters like you should stop moaning about how we can't have a conversation. We can, if you'd be willing to listen.

You can reverse the damage done by Anorexia. There are no similarities between the 2.

not always. Anorexia can cause irreparable harm. Gender identity disorders appear to get a much more sympathetic treatment from medics than eating disorders.

When you have suffered through pms suicidal thoughts, agonising period pains and bloated stomach etc

You haven't?

I feel sad for you; but I do not understand you.

This is not an artefact of contemporary , western society.

Do you honestly believe this to be true? What has been increasingly happening is schools since 2013 (or there about) is clearly a modern trend or social contagion. No society has ever seen anything comparable. Most of us know this to be true because most of us were all at school when none of these identities existed.

Go on then, give me some examples from Europe.

I wonder if the use of eunuchs as slaves in Greco-Roman times, or castrati in old opera does count?
It was wrong then, its is even more wrong now.

Ok, on that enlightened note, I need to check out of this thread now.
take care all ✌🏻

Trans women have existed throughout history, and across cultures.

Go on then, give me some examples from Europe.

Teacher here too and completely agree.

100% agree.

I think trans is putting on a dress and calling yourself a woman with a lady penis.

*altered their appearance, social roles and bodies (inc primary and secondary sex characteristics).

of course how gender diversity is interpreted, lived and understood will have differences across cultures and languages, like any other human trait.
However, the fact remains that people whose bodies and identities do not fit binary social and scientific understandings of sex and gender have existed throughout time and throughout cultures. This includes people who have altered their appearance, bodies and primary and secondary sex characteristics to live in the opposite sex role. This is not an artefact of contemporary , western society.

There’s quite an interesting “Gender a Wider Lens” podcast on how other cultures view “gender” and how those who do not conform are perceived by society and by themselves. It is nothing like the current gender identity narrative. It’s worth a listen if you haven’t already.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tkulTD3ZHfM

“Recent theories about gender often describe “third gender” categories found in other cultures. Prof Paul Vasey is one of the world’s leading academic experts on the Fa’fafine. These individuals are feminine males who live “in the manner of a woman” in Samoa. Sasha and Stella have a spellbinding discussion with Paul about how our western constructs can sometimes completely misinterpret well-researched phenomena in other societies. This conversation actually highligths the universal truths of sex difference between male and female and helps us understand the organice, naturally emerging trait of femininity in androphilic (or same sex attracted) males.”

they didn't actually claim to be women, they didn't undergo surgery
This is factually incorrect .

attempt to alter the natural order
this is nonsensical , quasi religious , dogma.

or turn on real women
this is a manifestation of your own prejudice.

Trans women have existed throughout history, and across cultures.

there are rhe Hijra of India, the Fa’afafine of Polynesia and the Kathoeys in Thailand, To name just a few examples. Trans histories in Europe have been relatively less visible and more marginalised compared to many eastern societies, but they are there. Gender diversity is not an artefact of contemporary western society, there have always been gender diverse people as part of the rich tapestry of human lives.

That's debatable. It's true there have always been cross dressers but they didn't actually claim to be women, they didn't undergo surgery or attempt to alter the natural order of things or turn on real women.

Sorry , How do you know what their feelings and motives were? Apart from anything else, these people are not a monolith. There have been gender diverse and trans people across history and across cultures.

One major clue is that history records a number of women (eg James Barry) who lived their lives as men, doing jobs that were only open to men, and were only discovered to be female after their death. How many men lived their lives as women and were only discovered to be male after their death?

Those who doubt there is an element of social contagion with anorexia should read the book Crazy Like Us which documents the epidemic of western eating disorders in Hong Kong following the high profile death of one young woman.

Anyone who says they doubt there is an element of social contagion in relation to trans must either be very young (and not comprehend how recently and heavy handedly this ideology has been thrust upon society) or they are not being entirely honest with themselves or others. It’s so clearly a trend at this point. Anyone with school age children (or anyone who knows school age children) can be in no doubt of that.

Sorry , How do you know what their feelings and motives were? Apart from anything else, these people are not a monolith. There have been gender diverse and trans people across history and across cultures.

I notice that a lot of people complaining about how "offensive" the article is have apparently failed to spot that it's a review of a memoir by Hadley Freeman about her teenage anorexia. In the book (which I've read), Freeman makes the connection between anorexia and gender dysphoria explicit. She interviews three mental health professionals (psychiatrists and psychologists) who are all expert in gender dysphoria, and they also say there are strong similarities between anorexia and gender dysphoria.

Still, what do psychiatric experts with long experience of dealing with troubled teenage girls know about the subject compared with a bunch of easily offended posters on Mumsnet?

I understand it's harmful unlike lesbianism, but I was comparing the way it is a trend and the in thing to be, just like being a lesbian was for a while. Unfortunately trans is not something to just grow out of or change your mind about, but the fashion for it is similar.

And the author sounds like a piece of work. Anti immigration( unless you’re a white American), pro Brexit and has been accused of racism.

The article is wrong, highly offensive and shows zero understanding of Anorexia which is complex. I’ll wager it’s understanding and summary of being trans is skewed too.

Self harm is not an illness but an expression of distress.

Body dysmorphia is different to Anorexia https://bddfoundation.org/information/bdd-related-conditions/eating-disorders/

And here is a summary of trans history
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

Not in the same way as they do today. And the motives were often different, eg. (often gay) women pretended to be men to escape marriage/oppression/the general pitfalls of being a woman in that society