Transwoman wins women's US cycling race & gets $35k prize

Talking about t levels etc is bollocks. It is fucking obvious that men are at an advantage. It is fucking disgusting that women are subjugated in this way. It is oppression. It is all about putting women in their place.

no offence taken. I don't think we're disagreeing anyway. there may be a T level at which male and female sporting performance roughly converge in some sports (just as e.g. there's a number of bricks used to weigh down men at which male and female swimming performances would converge), but 10 nmol/L certainly, certainly isn't it. I also agree that the hormone treatment doesn't make the male athlete female any more than the bricks would.

That rant was not aimed at you personally, @puffyisgood.

this cyclist will be competing at 2.5 nmol/L , which, though exceptionally high/borderline unheard of for a woman, is certainly below the male range

How is it relevant that the testosterone of a man competing in the women's category is below the male range?

His testosterone is well above the female range. As are his body shape, muscle strength, heart and lung sizes, VO2 max, bone density - virtually every other physiological measure relevant to athletic performance.

The female range is relevant, not the male range.

The female body is relevant, not the male body.

This is women's sports. Sports for female humans, not male humans, however they identify or dope or decorate their bodies.

Embarrassed for you America, embarrassed.

Obviously, else how would they know who the women are? We’re all biologically the same in terms of competitive edges so there clearly needs to be some kind of signifier - earrings, a bit of lippy, pink sparkly attire, that sort of thing.

<sighs>

This. We see it happening all around us and my world too has shrunk. I am so sickened and sad.

Worth remembering that women are not men with low testosterone - despite the attempts of trans activists to persuade everyone that we are.

The benefits for men of going through male puberty are now well evidenced.
https://boysvswomen.com/#/

that chart is slightly unfair in that Hubbard competed with the old, 'kind', limit of 10nmol/L, which is by no means unusually low for an adult man (e.g. it's far far above the level that might justify treatment), least of all a middle aged man like Hubbard. I think it's right that this cyclist will be competing at 2.5 nmol/L , which, though exceptionally high/borderline unheard of for a woman, is certainly below the male range

Whenever a sporting body states that men have no advantage over women in sports they need to be asked why they have separate male and female categories if that is the case.

I understand the argument that women should boycott these events but it does feel as if the upshot of transactivism is succeeding in making women's worlds smaller. Don't compete in this and that sporting event. Don't use that shop with the mixed-sex changing rooms. Don't go to that venue with the mixed-sex toilets. Don't go to that women-only event that isn't actually women-only. Don't watch that feminist film in public, watch it on YouTube. Everywhere women are withdrawing from a world where they had self-created a few tiny islands where they would have respite from male behaviour. It's colonisation.

Exactly this! And then they turn around and tell us that these men are the most oppressed, when they're bending over backwards to accommodate their demands and desires.

This

Yes - Oscar Sevilla, who was not allowed to start the 2006 Tour de France and was sacked by his team (T-Mobile) for being linked to a doping scandal.

Amazing that he can still be competitive at age 46 eh?

That graph! Perfect example of the hypocrisy of this ideology. If any woman scored like that, there would be immediate suspicion of cheating - which would be investigated. Funny how a woman with blood chemistry that resembles male blood chemistry would be considered a cheat, but a male with blood chemistry that resembles male blood chemistry is not.

How the actual fuck are we in this position?

How are women who work with these cyclists not seeing it?

This graph demonstrates perfectly why men need to be completely excluded from women's sports:

OldCrone

I think that all of us here have read other studies, which concluded that men taking oestrogen have a slight drop in performance, compared to other men, but that they still retain significant and insurmountable physiological advantage against women.

That's why they all go from No 567 in the national men's category, to "smashing Olympic records" when they are allowed to compete against women.

Joanna Harper can take her poorly thought out propaganda, posing as scientific research and use it as a flagpole on the top of the first available midden.

Depends upon their definition of 'unfair'. I expect they define it rather like they define 'woman', ie 'anything we want it to mean'.

I see that although referred to a post and not a person I was modded. Interesting.

When you look at the things Lance Armstrong (and many others) did to themselves in order to win, pretending to be a woman is minor.

For some reason competitive cycling - which I love - has always attracted more cheats than other sports: taking trains or cars, being pulled by a car by biting on a cork attached to a wire, paying spectators to violently take out rivals, electric engines hidden in bike frames, changing route information signs, mid-race blood transfusions, and of course drugs, drugs, drugs. These cyclist played with their lives and health to gain a competitive advantage - check out the shortened lifespans of top competitors.

Nowadays you don’t even have to bother sticking on a bit of lippy to cheat your way into the women’s race. Of course there are cyclists who will do it.

Here's a really good critique of that trans propaganda piece by gender critical academics:

When Ideology Trumps Science: A response to the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport’s Review on Transwomen Athletes in the Female Category

OldCrone · Today 11:28
Re your reply about the article
Trans women athletes have no unfair advantage under current rules, report finds

It's supposedly a review of mainly peer-reviewed studies, but it's not peer reviewed itself and I can't see the author(s) listed anywhere

Thanks for checking that out.