Is Mumsnet shutting down GC views? FAO Justine Roberts

Again: what do you plan to do for the women excluded from women's spaces in your vision of mixed sex facilities to enable men to have full freedom of choice?

Is your inclusiveness a men-only thing?

@Helleofabore read my comments before asking the same question again and again. Or disengage.

Let me clarify. Third space prisons. That is what I was referring to, I thought it was obvious but as a few of you didn't see that. Happy to presume I wasn't clear.

I believe in self Id jn all and every case.l with proper risk assessment done.

I don't believe any prisoner who commits a crime of sexual violence belongs in the general population of a prison with others and so sexual predators should serve there sentence in a seperate third space.

(Not trans people )

Are these 3rd spaces mixed sex? So all the sex offenders go in together?

Ah, I see.

So what about other spaces? changing rooms, toilets, etc. You think these should all be mixed sex? What about women who can't then use them?

What angers me, and still does all of these years later is the colonisation of 'woman'; of women's spaces, services and everything in between; and the ensuing erasure of women and disrspect for their integrity as a distinct class of human being; even down to the language that is used to describe women and their bodily parts and functions. Very angry - and yes, now very radical in sayng " No".

Being censured and cancelled doesn't help either.

I think that independently run polls if the data behind them are published so people can check the methodology are a very good indicator to the ‘majority’ opinion.

You can claim that you don’t know what the majority think til the cows come home, and declare us sanctimoniously to be discussing in ‘bad faith’, but I really don’t think you can hide behind the ‘until every woman has been polled’ argument.

That is unnecessary even. To be a ‘majority’ belief, it only has to believed by 51%. So no, not ‘every woman’ has to asked.

Even a referendum in the UK would not reach ‘every’ woman in the UK as voting is not compulsory. I find your statement that every single woman should be polled to be akin to fuckwittery to be used to silence other women.

And to be clear, no one is silencing you, just calling out your attempt to wedge open what the majority view is so you can claim it is not the majority view.

Although, to allow males into female spaces, then a majority of women ‘should’ have been asked before it ever happened, and we should have had the future ramifications clearly explained to us. I doubt it would have ever been allowed to happen if that polling had been done decades ago when clinicians told the first post op patients they should definitely use female single sex spaces.

I am confident that when I say things specifically are the ‘majority view’ it is represented of the majority because I speak to many people from a very wide range of views about it and the opinions I encounter are pretty close to the YouGov polls. I am not just speaking to my mates. I would be concerned if I did not find a range of opinions, then I would believe I was only speaking to people in a bubble.

The post I responded to of yours also showed you believe that :

“Supporting trans rights does not mean opposing women's rights.”

And to this I ask, what do you think placing males in female prisons does to those women’s sex based rights?

you talk about people not spreading misinformation and not that we ‘ are not entitled to your own facts’. If you believe that putting male people into female prison is not actively opposing the rights of those female inmates, then you seem to not understand the rights and the needs of those female inmates.

And you seem to be the one making up facts.

They have it's being researched. Unless you misunderstood I'm
Specifically referring to prisons per previous linking sentence.
Where risk assessments are performed. Ie third space prisons for sexual predators.

People like beachcitygirl do need a voice here, they're so much better at peaking lurkers than gc voices.

Question for you @beachcitygirl Why keep any single sex provisions if you are going to allow any males in?

I'm not sure of you rationale for not supporting gender neutral third facilities alongside single sex ones? If you are happy and comfortable with mixed sex facilities that is totally your call - but you cannot impose that on other women.

You do realise that apart from making women feel uncomfortable in their own spaces, it would positively exclude certain other groups of women - for religious or other reasons. Now that wouldn't be very inclusive would it?

If by include you mean make no differentiation between male and female ( or include males in the definition of female/woman) then just say so - because as far as most people are concerned, everyone can be included by having discrete facilities and services for those that prefer them to single sex - so that everyone can feel comfortable, respected and included.

Cheers to that 🍷🍷

Sadly I had a post deleted in the end. I don't think it was owing to my bold new use of the 3 letter acronym (not saying it again just in case 😬😁) but instead on giving an example of a difference between a biological fact and a belief. Even though I did it in what I felt was an objective way. Ah well, you live and learn.

But I'm glad you're here, regardless! It's always good to get different views and input.

I am very keen to hear more on third spaces for sexual predators. Please do expand, if you have the time.

I think they all think they are talking to JKR, that’s why they want go to chat…..

@ArabeIIaScott I'm a feminist. An actual one, A 53 year old feminist non-white woman. So I will not be dissuaded by you on how & when I speak.

So I will frequent the feminist boards.

If you wish a "GC" only echo chamber why not ask Mumsnet hq to sort you out one?

So we just wait until they rape someone then send them off to the third space?

…..hang on a minute….

So, beachcitygirl, how do you see these third spaces for sexual predators working? Will there be a sign on the door?

ie I don't support 3 rd spaces for trans people but 3rd spaces for sexual predators.

Actually, that's a genius idea. I can't believe nobody has thought of it before.

Single sex spaces for privacy, dignity and safety aren’t remotely comparable to race segregation.

Everyone knows that.

And using your friends post-rape PTSD as an analogy in a disagreement on the internet is revolting.

I thought exactly the same in relation to that particular thread, OP. Threads should not be deleted because there is GC balance to the intense trans agenda pushing. Deleting threads with GC debate is really worrying censorship.

ie I don't support 3 rd spaces for trans people but 3rd spaces for sexual predators.

That is delusional as it's not possible. how do you know whose a sexual predator? Men should never be allowed in womens spaces full stop.

frothing at the mouth over a word

I'm always open to respectful debate

d you see the slight contradiction in your words and the way you speak about women who disagree with you @beachcitygirl ?

The spiteful reporting of posts and deletions is not comng from the women you refer to as GC.

I'm not sure what you mean 'inclusive' feminist is but if it doesn't centre women it cannot be feminism or even primarily about women's rights or issues. It is something else.

I don't personally identify as a feminist anymore. I might have done back in the 1980's - but now I see much of what pases for feminism as just another branch of social justice activism or group identity politics of the sort I want little to do with; whereby you have to believe or sign up for a whole stable of inter-linked beliefs and theories. -which I suspect is what you mean by 'inclusive' feminism. The women's movement was about centring women - regardless of race or creed.

I wish people would stop using race as an example. It is not a good analogy at all; and often its use veers into racist territory. Sex is a fixed and stable category which is universal across race, tribe, creed and society. Saying that men cannot be women is not anything approaching any supposedly racist equivalents you could come up with. It is a simple fact.

If you had read the post in its context then you would have known that the OP felt fearful about bringing up her concerns at work - for fear of censure - to the extent that she felt that she might end up looking for another job.

Personally think she should have brought it up with management, as she has the right to feel comfortable in her workplace too - and certainly in the women's facilities; plus others may then have felt emboldened to come forward too.

Absolutely!

Yes, private belief versus fact. Biological sex is fact, gender identity is feeling/belief.

Personally, I would put gender identity in to RE rather than RHSE.

RE sounds far more interesting to these days than it was when I was at school. My kids really enjoy the exploration of beliefs that go beyond the classic religions.

So show post your own sources.

Because everything from December onwards that I can find completely contradicts your claims.