Is Mumsnet shutting down GC views? FAO Justine Roberts

Firstly because it's well spoken about how few undergo full transitioning. Secondly because women don't have a penis. Sex matters. People cannot change it.
Some women may have experienced trauma at the hands of males in the past and not want men in women's spaces. And to you their feelings don't matter, you just care not to hurt the men's feelings.

I would btw dearly love to see you extend the equality of this inquiring sensibly into worries to male people with TQ+ identities.

"What worries you really about being in mens spaces? Well here's my reasoned decision on why you're being silly and you just need to do it and get over yourself."

Where's this equality of uncaring, superior dismissal?

The more TRA posts on MN the better.
Give this crazy ideology plenty of air and people will soon make up their own minds.

I don’t see any benefit to society in allowing people to lie about their sex in official documentation. I see many drawbacks. The original benefit of essentially allowing back door gay marriage is no longer relevant as society is no longer homophobic.

I see a determination that female people must not be permitted the equality of consideration and care to a small group of special male people.

Those male people's feelings, fears, dignities, identities and choices matter (and so do to a lesser extent those identifying as male.)

But female people's are dismissed, ridiculed, dumped in a lot of word salad, and equality and inclusion is made a male only thing.

The only purpose of all this wangling at women is to shut them up and let male people have absolute freedoms. And apparently if this excludes and harms female people you're ok with that because <shrug> not like they're equally human or anything.

Binary, sex based thinking and quite fantastic misogyny. And I want answers that work for all with no one left excluded, unhappy, afraid, unsafe.

Why don't you? Why are you fine to leave a group out in the cold so long as it's not your favoured group?

@Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious how do you know the majority of trans women keep their penis?
Secondly why do you care ?

It’s not possible to change sex. you can’t self ID as the opposite sex anymore than you can self ID as a goldfish

allowing men to decide they’re women when it suits them does not remotely benefit women at all

@JolyGoodBloviator which part of the gra don't you agree with in particular. What makes you feel it's "bad" ?

Why don't you think trans people should be allowed to legally change sex.

Yeah this is pretty on the money.

Trans women are biological men. The majority even keep their penis. How can you honestly say that an individual with a penis is a woman?

But no one lists what their actual issue is. What they actually believe is happening with a change to the law.

Humans cannot change sex.
The original GRA is bad law and it’s stupid to extend that bad law even further.

Trans people should have protections against discrimination (as in the EQ10) but change of ‘legal’ sex is bonkers and the law should be based on reality not fantasy.

You prove my point perfectly

@BernardBlacksMolluscs I include trans women as women and trans men as men.

And frankly I don't much care what happens to a bunch of sexual predators locked up together. I should but I don't. My bad.

Fwiw I have been reading these board for a long long time and haven't read a single good sense reason to oppose self id from anyone.

It seems to split into a few camps.

But no one lists what their actual issue is. What they actually believe is happening with a change to the law.

I see innuendo, fear, biological determinism of the sort feminists despised only 20 years ago) bigotry, anger, upset more fear, lack of understanding of gender. Denial of gender, clinging to femininity and masculinity, outdated cliches

But not one single person who is open to changing their mind if given answers to their queries and worries. And who can state those worries simply and clearly.

female sex offenders get single sex spaces?

but no-one else does? not rape survivors, not women who adhere to strict abrahamic religions, not women who value their privacy and dignity?

doesn't seem fair really

@Pluvia do you think that women earn less because of their sex or because of the social structures created around attitudes towards their sex. ?

Absolutely. And to be clear, I do welcome supporters of self ID etc on here.

I was just pointing out the history of the boards on here.

FWIW I was always and remain opposed to the split.

@BernardBlacksMolluscs of course they are not mixed sex. All women in the women's wing/prison all men in the men's wing/prison.
And with proper risk assesment.
But that's for experts on prisons to work out the details .

I can't imagine we'll see many women sexual predators. There are only a few around that's why they make headlines.

The other thing with prisons is that there is no political will to spend money on prisons. Let's face it, prisons should never be the hotbed of violence, drugs and abuse and yes sexual exploitation that they currently are even when single sex. That is down to a lack of
Resources
Care
Cameras
Lack of single cells
Lack of any empathy for prisoners
Overpopulation
Some prison guards

A
General public that isn't perceived by politicians to care.

To be fair money and resources cure most issues with prisons. No politician will spend it tho. Not a vote winner.

This sub forum was created by Mumsnet HQ because women such as yourself didn't want to be exposed to what went on it becausse it is largely critical of gender as a constructed identity.. So 'Feminism chat' was set up to cater for and include everyone who wished to discuss women's issues and/or feminism as they perceived it without having to be subject to views they don't like or approve of.

Not everyone identifies themselves as a feminist, which now tends to have a whole lot other implications - especially by those who consider themselves 'inclusive' or liberal feminists - which is why the forum is all also called 'women's rights'. That is what I'm interested in here. Women and their experiences and their dignity and integrity as women. I'm not interested in including males in the definition of women - it doesn't make any sense at all.

I’d be content with spaces reserved for tervern females but I worry they would become overcrowded.

We don’t want an echo chamber at all - we need pro trans ideology posters, it’s how we demonstrate to lurkers that GC arguments can be backed up by evidence and transactivist arguments are empty appeals to emotion (using morally questionable false analogies that usually veer into casual racism).