Is Mumsnet shutting down GC views? FAO Justine Roberts

I am grateful to MNHQ, for supporting debate on GC issues when there was none elsewhere. But times have moved on. There is now open debate in mainstream outlets like the Times, and on SM - notably Twitter, but even on IG and Tik-Tok.

For a long time, MN was an outlier, in that it supported more freedom of speech than other outlets. Now, you risk being an outlier in suppressing freedom of speech more than your competitors.

Isn't it time to review your guidelines?

I can see how that could be interpreted as transphobic but having been in a position where I've witnessed trans identity/status be weaponised by a former colleague I can understand the concerns on the thread. It's not a bunch of what ifs sadly.

There were a number of posts suggesting avoiding interaction with a transwoman, or saying they would look for a job rather than work with a transwoman,

The OP, a survivor of sexual abuse was so uncomfortable sharing toilets with this individual (who did not even sound post-op) that she indicated she'd look for another job.

How is that transphobic? It really isn't. It is misogynist to expect women in these situations to 'be kind'.

In the particular case of this thread, the parts I had read contained posts that were transphobic. I am gender critical but that doesn't extend to transphobia. There were a number of posts suggesting avoiding interaction with a transwoman, or saying they would look for a job rather than work with a transwoman, these are transphobic. I'm pleased the thread has been deleted, I think that's right.

I don't think it is transphobic to maintain single sex spaces, toilets, prisons, sports. I don't think it is transphobic to prioritise safeguarding, to fight sexism and ensure women's rights. However I would happily work with, get to know and respect a transwoman colleague. There's a line here.

MN usually is respectful and discusses these challenges without transphobia. We should get back to that high ground.

I think Liberal feminism is doing it to itself in certain respects. the sort of feminism which is predicated on there being no differences between the sexes; the obsessional focus on 'equality'. a young generation of women have bee brought up with all of the gains made by previous generations and many have yet to fully realise that sexed differences are real and consequential.

Combined with the contemporray transhumanist project - which seeks to transcend the limits of living in a human body on Planet Earth - which for women means being 'liberated' from pregnancy and responsibility for children.

What women don't realise, by the above, is they are actively seeking their own erasure and the erasure of the female sex - as they seek to assimilate and become just like men; with the perceived freedoms that they believe men have.

Woman is fast being reduced to a free floating theoretical concept - rather than an embodied reality - and a concept or set of symbols which can be adopted by anyone who fancies.

Of course big pharma has a vested interest too - and you will note that the Pritzker family is heavily invested in sponsoring transgenderism in the U.S and further afield. JB Pritzker may even run for Democratic party leader in the next round of elections. The Pritzker's fortune comes from pharmaceuticals - and Jennifer Pritzker is a late transitioning MTF.

Constant lumping of post-op trans people into the same bracket as fetishists is unhelpful and unkind. We de-legitimise the entire argument when idiots appear using coarse, ridiculous language. Whether people like it or not, trans people exist and have a right to exist. Women also have a right to fully single sex spaces, but if people are so anti-trans it becomes bullying, I want no part of that team.

How can you tell of someone is "post op"?

How do you tell the difference between a transexual and an "erotic crossdresser"?

These are genuine questions. Asking anyone personal information about surgery they may or may not have had seems unreasonably intrusive.

De facto self ID means you cannot distinguish between a transexual with a history or gender dysphoria and an erotic cross dresser without being accused of transphobia. Nicola Sturgeon trashed her political career trying to pretend that no one would abuse self ID policies or law only to be revealed as a fool by a man in pink leggings.

No one has ever denied trans people's right to exist, despite the hyperbolic, "trans genocide" rhetoric I can't think of a single case of a woman physically harming a transwoman. Sadly, for us, the same cannot be said of the reverse.

Constant lumping of post-op trans people into the same bracket as fetishists is unhelpful and unkind

This is something lobby groups and transactivists achieved when they moved from using separate terminology such as transsexual and transvestite and lumped many disparate groups under the umbrella term “trans”. Are you suggesting that women must do the legwork to change those definitions back in order to protect one of those groups?

In my experience some moderators are more activist and hard-line than others. I'm not sure if there is a fixed rota and you know who is on and when?

What is the current policy on the previous 'three strikes and you are out'?

Don’t worry, OP. The tide will turn, most of the adult population are getting pretty uneasy or just plain 🙄 at some of the results of ‘be kind’.

Then suddenly all the on line forums will be saying how they were always on the right side of history, because that’s what the advertisers want to hear.

FOJN thanks a lot for info.

Someone claiming to be the wife woke up that short thread to tell us it was none of our business, then that poster was being facile on several other threads. Iirc women's rights disappeared off the drop down last year, bumped for first for secondary education then for Christmas.

I will not be fucking kind to people who are not at all kind to me.

This.

It's got fuck-all to do with 'truth' and everything to do with how fucking pathetic those debates get.

The debate drifted from the very legitimate 'single sex spaces are to be preserved' into very blatant transphobia in the form of 'I'd avoid Lucy the man-woman'.

Constant lumping of post-op trans people into the same bracket as fetishists is unhelpful and unkind. We de-legitimise the entire argument when idiots appear using coarse, ridiculous language. Whether people like it or not, trans people exist and have a right to exist. Women also have a right to fully single sex spaces, but if people are so anti-trans it becomes bullying, I want no part of that team.

If we want these pages to stay up then a large chunk of MN need to learn to debate without resorting to foaming at the mouth and horrible name-calling or goady jokes so that those of us with a reasonable point to make aren't wasting our time.

OP have you reported this thread to draw MNHQ’s attention to it?

Jennifer Bilek has done lots of work on who is promoting the trans agenda. Here is a link to her blog and one of many interviews she has done which can be found on YouTube.

There is definitely money behind it. How else could something so obviously anti-reality gain traction across the western world?

www.the11thhourblog.com/

Just noticed the link to the feminism threads has been replaced by “Secondary education” in the Talk Topics, had to go to “I’m on” to find the folder.

you can speak the truth on Twitter these days - its very refreshing

I wanted to ask who or what organisations are pushing for the eradication of women only spaces and indeed, women as a sex class, and why. Can’t be all MRA and the like, surely?

Who gains financially, as I bet money is the driver somehow.

Pluvia, have they gone, or just name changed?

That is why they start their threads around 22.30 UK time. I am always suspicious of those threads.