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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The tide has turned in the lesbian capital of the UK

91 replies

littleripper · 24/04/2023 21:34

I was shocked but delighted to see this on the HebWeb, Hebden Bridge's community website.
https://www.hebdenbridge.co.uk/forum/2023/006.html
Sadly the letter by Dave Boardman (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11130491/Music-academy-lecturer-sacked-comments-drag-queens-femininity-takes-legal-action.html Cathy's dad) has been removed due to legal threats but the comments are still up

Lecturer 'sacked for suggesting drag acts are a gross caricature'

Cathy Boardman, a former lecturer in cultural studies at a Brighton music college, claims she has been forced out of her job after she asked her class to reflect on whether 'womanface' is demeaning.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11130491/Music-academy-lecturer-sacked-comments-drag-queens-femininity-takes-legal-action.html

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teaandtoastplease · 27/04/2023 05:21

CathyBoardman · 25/04/2023 20:16

Yes it's very silly. And pushes things underground, and fosters resentment.

There's no reason that feminists and trans people can't get on. We don't all have to believe the same things in order treat each other well.

There's also no reason that we can't have women only events, or trans only events, or gay men only events.

We could have a party for only people who like psy trance music. I wouldn't want to go, but I would never try to ban it. I also wouldn't assume that a party aimed at a demographic that I don't belong to is planned as a personal slight to me.

Women's discos have been a staple of the valley for years. The long running one isn't women only anymore, and now we are only allowed to gather with other women if we do it privately and in secret.

That's progress for you.

Totally agree with this. I think it is also encouraging that more and more trans women are speaking up in defence of female sex based rights. Although I have seen trans activists label those trans women as being transphobic, which beggars belief. The misogynistic and sometimes violent protests by those activists at female only gatherings etc are making people wake up to the fact that sex and gender are separate things. Yes fight for trans people's rights, but don't take women's rights away in the process.

dunBle · 27/04/2023 05:07

Whenever someone starts going on about flags, I'm always reminded of this from a few years ago, on the subject of a certain Northern Ireland controversy:

The Blame Game: Flegs

Jake O'Kane takes on the 'flegs' issue on the Blame Game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8JqKxrloQQ

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/04/2023 18:27

CuriousMoo · 25/04/2023 20:22

What's your experience? The jubilee? Pirate ships? Surrender?

The national front of my childhood REALLY loved flags

I’ve heard they were a little unsavoury

plus, yanno, actual Nazis. No personal experience admittedly, but I think we can trust the prevailing view there

plus every weird neighbour with a flag pole in his garden. It’s just a sign that he’s going to want to talk to you at length about potholes

PoshCoffee · 26/04/2023 16:57

I will plant some carrots in Cathy’s garden come payday

TheBiologyStupid · 26/04/2023 16:28

Cathy just emailed this update - gardening forks at the ready!I

Hi everyone,

I wanted to give an update on where the legal case is up to.

The parties met earlier this month for a judicial mediation. This is a settlement negotiation facilitated by an employment judge acting as a mediator - talking to the parties about their priorities and trying to help them to reach a resolution they can both live with.

My case is listed for hearing over 8 days in July 2024. That will cost a lot of money and work for everyone involved, so it is in everyone’s interests if we can agree to settle the case.

I was represented at the mediation by my barrister Naomi Cunningham, and the preparatory work has been done by my Solicitor Elizabeth McGlone. This has been made possible by your incredible generosity, and I am more grateful than I can say to every single person who has donated to my Crowd Justice fund.

If an agreement is reached, and the fund retains a surplus, it will be put towards a similar case. As all has been quiet, it is looking very likely that we will be going full steam ahead to a full hearing next July, and you will be hearing much more from me for another year and a half!

I will update either way when I have news.

In gratitude and solidarity,

Cathy

TheBiologyStupid · 25/04/2023 22:12

I've given to the crowd funder for Cathy.

Ditto. Cathy has reached 21,460 carrots out of a planned 27,000 veg with 15 days to go.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 25/04/2023 20:57

I know I was quoted in that post as I got the mail notifying me, dread to think what was said since it was deleted so fast.

@CathyBoardman good luck

CuriousMoo · 25/04/2023 20:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CuriousMoo · 25/04/2023 20:22

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/04/2023 13:34

People who REALLY LOVE FLAGS often need careful watching in my experience

What's your experience? The jubilee? Pirate ships? Surrender?

CathyBoardman · 25/04/2023 20:16

girlpancake · 25/04/2023 19:50

I was horrified to read on the comments one Councillor saying women were permitted to meet in private but not in public. A really disturbing, almost Taliban-esque view. Some of the comments have been censored too, they are archived here https://archive.ph/MG3WZ

Yes it's very silly. And pushes things underground, and fosters resentment.

There's no reason that feminists and trans people can't get on. We don't all have to believe the same things in order treat each other well.

There's also no reason that we can't have women only events, or trans only events, or gay men only events.

We could have a party for only people who like psy trance music. I wouldn't want to go, but I would never try to ban it. I also wouldn't assume that a party aimed at a demographic that I don't belong to is planned as a personal slight to me.

Women's discos have been a staple of the valley for years. The long running one isn't women only anymore, and now we are only allowed to gather with other women if we do it privately and in secret.

That's progress for you.

girlpancake · 25/04/2023 19:50

I was horrified to read on the comments one Councillor saying women were permitted to meet in private but not in public. A really disturbing, almost Taliban-esque view. Some of the comments have been censored too, they are archived here https://archive.ph/MG3WZ

Welcome to nginx

https://archive.ph/MG3WZ

EmmatheStageRat · 25/04/2023 18:51

libertine80 · 25/04/2023 18:03

@CathyBoardman - I hope your parents are OK in the face of this.

I would have gone to the party if I knew about it. Sad that it was a woman who got the party cancelled.

You have the support of me and my family.

Me too. A local here. And an adult human female with two daughters.@CathyBoardman you must be so proud of your dad, in the same way he clearly is of you? Your dad’s legendary community spirit will be a loss to our town. Good luck with your legal fight.

libertine80 · 25/04/2023 18:03

@CathyBoardman - I hope your parents are OK in the face of this.

I would have gone to the party if I knew about it. Sad that it was a woman who got the party cancelled.

You have the support of me and my family.

MargotBamborough · 25/04/2023 18:02

Hi @CathyBoardman, I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope the fact that you now get to join the awesome ranks of JK Rowling, Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock etc is some comfort to you.

I am absolutely gobsmacked about the ideological capture of the higher education and publishing sectors. If the gatekeepers of knowledge are censoring diversity of thought and freedom of speech, what hope is there for humanity?

I think the general public are very much on Team Women Don't Have Penises, and more and more people are getting frustrated and fed up with trans activists claiming that anything which doesn't put trans people front and centre at the expense of everyone and everything else is transphobic. We can all see they are far from a powerless, marginalised minority too.

Unfortunately, given that this luxury belief system seems to be most pervasive among academics who prefer theory to practice, and idealistic students who haven't been around long enough to really understand sex inequality, I think it will be a very long time before universities stop being in thrall to this ridiculous ideology.

Trans activists remind me of the children in Nineteen Eighty Four, turning their parents in to Big Brother for wrongthink.

CathyBoardman · 25/04/2023 17:22

The discussion on the Heb Web forum is reassuringly balanced. A lot of people are sick of it.

Yes, that's my dad, and yes he's very angry at what's happened. He has a strong sense of justice, instilled into his kids, and is appalled that women have been silenced / cancelled for no good reason, and has now experienced first hand the viscousness of reactions to people who want to talk about the issue.

It also yet again highlights the irony of trans activists who claim that there is no conflict between trans rights and womens rights, and then kick off at the thought of a women only party. I really don't think they do themselves any favours.

They'd have saved face if, when they found out there was a party planned with women they didn't like going, they just didn't go, rather than all of this fuss.

I believe it was women who got it cancelled btw, not trans people. It appears to have been orchestrated by a woman, who now doesn't want anyone to talk about it.

Hint : if you don't want to ever enter into discussions about what appears to be your favourite issue, you probably don't have as deep an understanding about it as you think.

libertine80 · 25/04/2023 16:47

I moved to this town as a baby and grew up there throughout the 80s and 90s. My close family still live in the area. My mum flagged this article to me - I hadn't realised that it had been taken down. It's a great article and his anger shines through. My family have said that Dave is very well known in the area - particularly in the Trades. The Boardman family are moving out of the town which is such a shame. I've given to the crowd funder for Cathy.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/04/2023 13:59

100%. All flags make me a bit wary, tbh.

MargotBamborough · 25/04/2023 13:56

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/04/2023 13:34

People who REALLY LOVE FLAGS often need careful watching in my experience

Ain't that the truth.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/04/2023 13:34

CuriousMoo · 24/04/2023 23:50

If you ever visit you'll be sad to see all the lovely pro-trans posters and flags up. The internet is not real life thank god.

People who REALLY LOVE FLAGS often need careful watching in my experience

moofolk · 25/04/2023 13:16

littleripper · 24/04/2023 22:22

https://archive.ph/JNiRg

Does this work 👆

This link works, thanks.

MargotBamborough · 25/04/2023 12:49

I feel conflicted about the Daily Mail at the moment because I hate them but their reporting on this issue is excellent.

As well as their continued reference to "the gender critical belief that humans can't change sex" (meaning that most readers will associate gender critical beliefs with common sense), this paragraph jumped out at me.

Ms Boardman fell into new difficulties in March 2021 after another lecture on sex and gender. She says she decided to focus on the mistreatment of women because her presentation fell in the same week as the vigil for Sarah Everard, who had been raped and murdered by a Metropolitan Police officer.
But this led to accusations of 'transphobia' from a small number of the 400 students she addressed because her hour-long lecture omitted to mention transgender people – an omission they felt was hurtful. 'When a student asked me why we hadn't talked about transgender issues, I said we hadn't the time to do it justice,' Ms Boardman said.'

So, talking about trans people in a way they don't like it is transphobic, and not talking about them at all is transphobic.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/04/2023 09:45

'Since this started many women in the valley – some in the Labour Party which is still home to some good people - have congratulated me for defending my daughter. Many women have said they are scared to speak up these days for fear of intimidation and being targeted like Cathy and the others have been, even fear for their jobs and livelihood. I have been shocked by how many.'

😔

2023, and women are afraid to say they believe sex is immutable in public.

Namechange5508 · 25/04/2023 09:26

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus You are very welcome as far as I’m concerned. You’d be welcome round to mine for a brew and a walk anytime. 💐

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 25/04/2023 09:25

Namechange5508 · 25/04/2023 09:06

This is me. I am one of the people who fears reprisal living in this town of outwardly saying what I think (I’m a GC feminist and in a relationship with a woman). The flags don’t represent me, but Dave and Viv do. I echo what Viv said - I want trans people to be treated with respect and to have a place they can gather, feel themselves, organise - but not to the detriment of treating women with respect and taking their places.

I live near rather than in the town thankfully, I absolutely love the place but I don't go anywhere near as much as I no longer feel welcome. Live and let live is a wonderful maxim but doesn't work in this situation. This is a fundamental clash of rights.

Beamur · 25/04/2023 09:13

I live near here. It's a very inclusive place and yes, there are lots of trans posters up at the moment. Pride is coming.
I've also had a brush with one of the local councillors who was dreadful on this issue. Made the mistake of asking a question and was harangued. They're decent local councillors but Labour is totally captured.
It's also terf central. There's someone/several people who sticker around quite a lot. Used a shopping trolley with an adult human female sticker on it recently.