Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Work DEI response: single-sex toilets

212 replies

ToriaB · 24/04/2023 15:24

Excerpted response below from my email to the head of DEI where I work; my question and his answer.

Tempted to respond by saying "Humans don't change sex".

Just to confirm – does this mean that [this higher education institution] are no longer offering single-sex facilities at the study centres?

No – there is no change to our facilities, [the higher education institution] are continuing to provide single-sex facilities. Trans men may use male designated toilets and Trans women may use female designated toilets, as is our current policy. We are also investigating the possibility of our accessible toilets broadening their scope so that they may be used as a gender-neutral, single-lockable space.

OP posts:
HermioneWeasley · 24/06/2023 14:37

that is a storming letter - I can hear them panicking and squealing from here!

Boiledbeetle · 23/06/2023 09:22

So they are at the if we ignore her existence completely she'll go away and we can pretend everything is great in la la land!

The fact that they've gone for total ignoring to me means they haven't given two thoughts to anyone but the chosen group and don't want to have to admit it.I

Keep at it OP!

OhHolyJesus · 23/06/2023 09:11

Just coming here to say well done OP, keep going (I'm sure you will)!

BezMills · 23/06/2023 08:48

🖐 angelico, well met!

angelico53 · 23/06/2023 08:43

Keep it up. Great work.

ArabeIIaScott · 22/06/2023 22:45

OP you're doing great work. They ought to listen; you're actually helping them out.

SeulementUneFois · 22/06/2023 22:35

Well done OP!
I see you mentioned a meeting, they make come back on that. I would make sure that it's either on Teams so you can record it, or if in person with a witness and similarly record it.

ToriaB · 22/06/2023 17:13

It still goes on!

Dear [Man]

I have still not received a response from you regarding my query below.
I understand that the institution is a Stonewall Diversity Champions and this year will be entering the UK Workplace Equality Index, at a time when many institutions are leaving the scheme following criticism that the organisation’s
advice undermines compliance with the Equality Act 2010.

A report by barrister Akua Reindorf for the University of Essex found that its policy on “Supporting Trans and Non Binary Staff”, reflecting Stonewall guidance, was not in line with the Equality Act and contributed to an environment of fear for staff holding dissenting views about sex and gender.

I am attaching a publication from Sex Matters “Understanding the risk of following Stonewall guidance – briefing for employers” which draws attention to the mismatches between current legislation and Stonewall’s guidance on ‘trans inclusion’. This notes that:

Stonewall is committed to the political project of “gender self-identification”. Across all of its guidance and training it advises employers to ignore the legally protected characteristic of sex and to treat self-identified gender as if this was the legally protected characteristic. The charity explicitly argues against taking a compliance approach and opposes using language in line with the Equality Act 2010. It says that the language of the law might be offensive. It calls for organisations to go “above and beyond the law”, and in the process induces them to misinterpret their legal freedom and capacity to act.

This ignores the potential for conflicts of rights with those who have other protected characteristics such as sex, sexual orientation and religion or belief.

Pages 26-30 specifically look at the Code of Practice guidance for toilets, showers and changing rooms and how Stonewall guidance reflects neither the law nor the Code of Practice.

You stated that you “do not feel the need to continue communicating further on this matter via email” and have not acknowledged receipt of any further correspondence from me regarding this matter, although I have repeatedly said I would welcome a meeting to discuss these concerns.

I would like to reiterate my concerns that that the institution risks reputational damage if this is not addressed prior to an incident of student complaint due to the lack of single-sex facilities, and that we are not compliant with workplace legislation for provision of the same. In the absence of a response from you to discuss this I will instead be approaching the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Health and Safety Executive on this matter.

OP posts:
Stemmingthetide · 28/05/2023 08:15

@ToriaB another piece of information you can use is the 2021 Census. I know the methodology for the question is flawed but it’s the best we have.

In the 2021 Census 93.5% of people who answered the voluntary question about gender identity stated their sex and gender were the same. Only 0.2% of respondents indicated they were a transman or a transwoman.

In view of this, is making all toilets unisex a proportionate way to achieve a legitimate aim?

Why exclude 93.5% of females by permitting 0.1% of transwomen to use female toilets. Is it not possible to make one male toilet in each building unisex and retain female toilets for biological females? A far more proportionate approach.

Add in details of what is appropriate for your buildings.

OscarsAmmonite · 26/05/2023 16:32

Chortled at the Holy month of Pride. Happy Scottish Bus week, for those who observe.

ToriaB · 26/05/2023 16:30

Have just sent with the please confirm you are refusing to provide answers version. Will see what comes back, if anything, as we enter the Holy Month of Pride. Still also need to chase on the - why are you linking to the GATE report and ILGA as Ally resources when these call LGB Alliance and Sex Matters hate organisations that incite violence?

OP posts:
ToriaB · 26/05/2023 16:26

mateysmum · 26/05/2023 15:28

Can you include anything like "should I not receive a response from you I will forward my concerns to ( higher authority)".
If there is no sanction, then he can carry on ignoring you with impunity.
Is there anyone else you can copy in that might be helpful or are they all captured?
Clearly man has realised that he has no answer to your questions and so he is trying to ignore you and hope you will go away - cos after all you are wrong and he is right, no matter how wrong he is!! He doesn't know that he is messing with the Might of Mumsnet. The whole coven is behind you.😃

He's already been copying in our head of HR and the academic lead so can't really go much higher easily. The alternative is to go round and directly contact the academic lead for student experience because they will be the frontline when a student complains.

OP posts:
ToriaB · 26/05/2023 16:13

MargotBamborough · 26/05/2023 15:22

A private provider of what? Is the university itself public, or is it a completely private higher education institution?

That odd beast, a private HEI. Stakeholders and everything.

OP posts:
PaleBlueMoonlight · 26/05/2023 16:04

I would add "females who want privacy away from males" to your list. They are every bit as important.

mateysmum · 26/05/2023 15:28

Can you include anything like "should I not receive a response from you I will forward my concerns to ( higher authority)".
If there is no sanction, then he can carry on ignoring you with impunity.
Is there anyone else you can copy in that might be helpful or are they all captured?
Clearly man has realised that he has no answer to your questions and so he is trying to ignore you and hope you will go away - cos after all you are wrong and he is right, no matter how wrong he is!! He doesn't know that he is messing with the Might of Mumsnet. The whole coven is behind you.😃

MargotBamborough · 26/05/2023 15:22

A private provider of what? Is the university itself public, or is it a completely private higher education institution?

ToriaB · 26/05/2023 15:16

Could change it to:

Dear [Man]

As I have had no response from my previous email I am requesting confirmation that you are refusing to provide answers to my questions below:

OP posts:
JellyJazzy · 26/05/2023 15:08

Excellent letter though!

ToriaB · 26/05/2023 15:06

Damnit, @MargotBamborough - it's a university but a private provider. Arse.
Good point, well made.

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 26/05/2023 15:01

Good letter, @ToriaB. Am I right in thinking this is a university, and so definitely subject to FOIA?

PriOn1 · 26/05/2023 15:00

Great to see your continued challenge, Toria. Thank you for taking a stand.

ToriaB · 26/05/2023 14:46

How does this read as no response since last email where I asked if he was refusing to confirm whether an Equality Impact Assessment had taken place and to share the staff and student consultation that supported this decision?

Dear [Man]

As I have had no response from my previous email I am now confirming that I am submitting the questions below as a Freedom of Information request.

Has {Institution} sought legal guidance on the decision to offer mixed-sex “single-gender” toilet facilities?
Was an Equality Impact Assessment undertaken?
If so, did it take into account the requirements of:

  • Muslim females
  • Orthodox Jewish females
  • Gypsy/Roma/Traveller females
  • Autistic females
  • Females with trauma
  • Females with a history of CSA
  • Females with a history of DV/DA
What impacts or barriers were identified? What actions were taken to address identified impacts or barriers? What questions did the staff and student consultation ask relating to this policy? What were the aggregated responses to the consultation that supported this policy?

I remain concerned that the institution risks reputational damage if this is not addressed prior to an incident of student complaint due to the lack of single-sex facilities, and that we are not compliant with workplace legislation for provision of the same.

OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 24/05/2023 19:27

The reasonable solution is to provide third space gender neutral whatever spaces for male people who do not want to use male only spaces. And then expect those male people to respect that female people also have need for access and inclusion, and comfort, and dignity, that is equal to theirs.

Otherwise the argument boils down to nothing more than serving biological males to the detriment and subordination of biological females. Which would be male supremacism. Entirely on a binary sex basis. It is treating females less favourably than males on the basis of their sex. For no better reason than some males will get cross if females are treated equally to them.

I don't see how that can stand up in court. 'They can't have equality cos I don't want them to' is not much of an equality/inclusion/diversity argument.

SeulementUneFois · 24/05/2023 19:19

OP

Hopefully it definitely won't come to this, but they may try quite dirty tactics.
If you're ambushed on the spot, make sure that you get your mobile to record. (Even if it's not quite legal blah blah.)

Or they may say something that would really make you feel threatened re your job, etc. With the benefit of detachment - i.e. for someone who's not in the line of fire - one would see that it would be a bluff. So please come back to this thread for our support - emotional and legalistic:).

Thanks for what you're doing, again!

ToriaB · 24/05/2023 19:13

Thank you all so much for your help, advice and support on this.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread