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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Work DEI response: single-sex toilets

212 replies

ToriaB · 24/04/2023 15:24

Excerpted response below from my email to the head of DEI where I work; my question and his answer.

Tempted to respond by saying "Humans don't change sex".

Just to confirm – does this mean that [this higher education institution] are no longer offering single-sex facilities at the study centres?

No – there is no change to our facilities, [the higher education institution] are continuing to provide single-sex facilities. Trans men may use male designated toilets and Trans women may use female designated toilets, as is our current policy. We are also investigating the possibility of our accessible toilets broadening their scope so that they may be used as a gender-neutral, single-lockable space.

OP posts:
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SeulementUneFois · 16/08/2023 12:42

Best of luck OP, great news! And thank you again for what you've done and will be doing!

An idea - Are you on your notice period still with your current employer?

Could you send one more email back, throwing a few more sticks into the fire - e.g. specifically naming religious discrimination (and maybe even racial discrimination at a stretch - I think Irish travellers, who are now considered distinct from the race discrimination point of view, have strong cultural rules about the other sex).

ZeldaFighter · 16/08/2023 09:55

Congratulations on your new job!

Redshoeblueshoe · 16/08/2023 09:17

Congratulations on your new job. I hope the dean follows it and takes it further.

Froodwithatowel · 16/08/2023 09:07

ToriaB · 16/08/2023 00:12

An update:

I have a new job and I'm moving to a different university. Better paid, better title, an area I'm more excited about working in.

I have an exit survey to complete and as I have no intention of returning to this particular institution I am planning to be quite clear on how part of my reason for leaving is the failure to consider the needs of our students and the right of female students and staff to have male free toilets.

I have dotted line reporting to one of the deans and when I explained I was leaving was asked whether there were reasons other than the fact that the new job is an excellent opportunity and explicitly said that there had been this issue with HR to which the response was that HR are clearly in the wrong.

Thank you every one for your support on this. I'm going into a new probationary period so will be keeping my head down for a while, but back in a campus university so will probably be back to stealth stickering.

The fight goes on, leaving a battle doesn't mean surrendering the war.

Bravo OP.

You're one of a couple of women on this board forced to jump ship from a job because of anti-women policies. Sadly I suspect that what will happen is that as all the balance and diversity of people on a team are pushed out for non compliance, it will become more polarised and there will be those completely anti-woman focused, and those with an awareness and open mindedness, and there will be the two separate sides. It's very sad that one side is capable of coping with inclusiveness and welcoming/accessible policies equally for all, including women, and the other side insists that only one group's needs must be met and all other groups' needs must be abandoned and if necessary, oppressed to enforce compliance.

It's happened with the LGBA and Stonewall. The pretence will be shouted about that 'everyone agrees with us, look! because we pushed out everyone who had any other opinions, insights or concerns' but it's getting more and more obviously a ridiculous claim.

I wish you the very best in your new job, I hope it's a much happier and safer place for women to be.

viques · 16/08/2023 08:38

Congratulations on the new job. I don’t think you have lost the battle, what you have done is tactically withdrawn from the battlefield having left some anti personnel weaponry behind that will eventually blow up in their faces. The seeds have been sown, the dragons teeth will grow into a legion of angry, hungry, dragons.

JoyousAsOtters · 16/08/2023 08:22

So glad to hear this ToriaB and best of luck in your new role. I’m an academic too - I take heart from the fact that while bits of uni life are totally one sided, others are not. There are I think a much broader range of opinions on the issue of women’s and children’s rights than it might appear, mainly because ‘no debate’ (anachronistic in itself at university surely?) has chilled everything for so long. One issue is the HR departments, another is the union reps. I work across three different institutions, one is much more TRA heavy, the others not so significantly. Hope your new place is an easier, more supportive place to be.

ArabeIIaScott · 16/08/2023 07:57

Grats, OP! Sounds like a wonderful move.

Hagosaurus · 16/08/2023 07:19

Congratulations Tory,

I really hope one of the organisations supporting women’s rights (Sex Matters?) is able to make use of the data/emails you have collected. You never know how many other women have contacted them about this particular university

Stemmingthetide · 16/08/2023 07:19

@ToriaB congratulations on the new job. Definitely the right decision to move on.

Magenta82 · 16/08/2023 06:35

I'm so pleased for you, congratulations on the new job!
Hopefully the exit survey will go somewhere other than HR and perhaps someone will take notice.
Also the government making things clearer on the need for single sex toilets might help, ignoring women and girls is one thing and far too easy, ignoring the law is different.

Igmum · 16/08/2023 06:30

Good luck in the new job Toria and well done for speaking up. Fingers crossed the Dean pays attention

BezMills · 16/08/2023 04:54

Best of luck @ToriaB

Codlingmoths · 16/08/2023 02:49

And congratulations on the new job now I’ve read through!

Codlingmoths · 16/08/2023 02:48

2userspast3 · 24/04/2023 17:24

Bloody hell - talk about doubling down. Have they entered the Gaslighter of the Year Competition? Is their view that all Muslims should accept their new interpretation of the words "single sex"?
And seriously - have they done an equality impact assessment on the impact on Muslim women and women in general of their policy of inviting transwomen (in practice this means any men) into the previously women only toilets?

So much FUCKWIT. Sending you hugs for having had to read it and think I work with this absolute vegetable.

Coyoacan · 16/08/2023 02:35

Great news, OP. Good luck in your new job

GrumpyPanda · 16/08/2023 00:15

Good for you! Wishing you all the best in your new position.

ToriaB · 16/08/2023 00:12

An update:

I have a new job and I'm moving to a different university. Better paid, better title, an area I'm more excited about working in.

I have an exit survey to complete and as I have no intention of returning to this particular institution I am planning to be quite clear on how part of my reason for leaving is the failure to consider the needs of our students and the right of female students and staff to have male free toilets.

I have dotted line reporting to one of the deans and when I explained I was leaving was asked whether there were reasons other than the fact that the new job is an excellent opportunity and explicitly said that there had been this issue with HR to which the response was that HR are clearly in the wrong.

Thank you every one for your support on this. I'm going into a new probationary period so will be keeping my head down for a while, but back in a campus university so will probably be back to stealth stickering.

The fight goes on, leaving a battle doesn't mean surrendering the war.

OP posts:
Ourladycheesusedatum · 30/07/2023 18:40

TWETMIRF · 30/07/2023 18:36

I've got a feeling it was Little OJ

dr haddock I think

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/07/2023 18:39

TWETMIRF · 30/07/2023 18:36

I've got a feeling it was Little OJ

TERF toilets - love the idea 😂

TWETMIRF · 30/07/2023 18:36

Froodwithatowel · 30/07/2023 11:32

As I remember, some idiot announced this a couple of years ago, that the answer was to stuff all the nasty women who can't won't validate male people with their bodies in a room by themselves because who wants to go near them anyway.

And the women all went yay, yes please!

And the idiot and a lot of male people said.....'wait a minute'.....

Sadly, it's the non consenting ones who are the goal.

I've got a feeling it was Little OJ

ZeldaFighter · 30/07/2023 16:50

I do wonder about this in my workplace - once a staff member announces their transition, they have a private meeting with their manager and HR and toilet provision is decided. I have failed to find out what the provision is for "Simon"s colleagues now that he has decided to become "Simone". What do they do if they're not happy with "Simone"'s choice?

Froodwithatowel · 30/07/2023 11:32

MargotBamborough · 02/07/2023 20:41

Wouldn't it be wonderful if they could provide separate toilets for bigots all women who consider trans women to be men?

As I remember, some idiot announced this a couple of years ago, that the answer was to stuff all the nasty women who can't won't validate male people with their bodies in a room by themselves because who wants to go near them anyway.

And the women all went yay, yes please!

And the idiot and a lot of male people said.....'wait a minute'.....

Sadly, it's the non consenting ones who are the goal.

viques · 30/07/2023 10:51

AmuseBish · 24/04/2023 16:30

Also it sounds as if he thinks trans people have genders that match their sex. Which is cisnormative and trans-erasing.

Maybe good to check that he recognises trans people have a gender of one gender and a sex of a different sex?

Or even better that he understands that :

sex is a legally protected characteristic ,gender is not.

sex is something you are born with and is unchangeable

most people identify with their sex and can’t be arsed with gender

if you do decide to gender identify then that is your business and you shouldn’t be trying to coerce other people to validate your choices.

Magenta82 · 30/07/2023 10:44

I wonder if the shift in the labour party, more publicity for detransitioners etc will change people's minds on this? Or at least give the people who never agreed the courage to speak up.

MargotBamborough · 02/07/2023 20:41

2userspast3 · 02/07/2023 20:30

Not necessarily. It shows that they know that Muslims consider transwomen to be men (sex). I imagine they think Muslims are bigots, but are prepared to compromise a little to try to avoid a religious or race discrimination claim.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if they could provide separate toilets for bigots all women who consider trans women to be men?