Horrific case report after genital surgery *TW distress*

I’ve spent a bit of time lurking on r/MtF on and off and I’ve seen several complaints about dilation: how time consuming it can be, how much it hurts, how hard it can be to maintain any “depth” to the neovagina - which isn’t exactly surprising, the body is constantly trying to heal a wound. A lot of post-transition patients reportedly let their dilation schedule slip if they’re not sexually active or there’s no prospect of sex on the horizon, because from what I’ve seen some of them say, the pain isn’t worth it if there’s no “reward”.

There has been at least one post-transition suicide, or strongly believed to be so, among those users a couple of years back, a young person with the username u/stupidstories. Of course it’s possible they simply stopped posting / changed username, but they’d posted at length about their profound disappointment at the result of their surgery and their suicidal ideation. It was incredibly sad watching it play out in real time.

God, no wonder Jazz Jennings didn't want to do it.

And there was Jazz's mum moaning to her mates 'she won't do her dilation when I tell her, like it's fucking learning French vocab.

My friends have told me the dilation is excruciating.

I wonder if the dilation is painful? I think it probably is especially if the person is less than diligent with their routine.
The nearest comparable situation I can think of is patients with a gastrostomy tube - a feeding tube, soft and flexible, about the thickness of a biro, that goes directly into the stomach. My department has a cohort of patients who require regular management of their tubes, they need changing from time to time and sometimes they get displaced. A small balloon filled with water keeps it in place, but sometimes the balloons burst. Before removing the tube all water is removed from the balloon but it doesn't deflate quite snug and flat against the body of the tube, just like any other balloon that has been inflated and then the air released. It always surprises me how patients find it quite - very painful removing the old tube, just the short part of passing the area with the balloon through the tract. Despite long-standing tubes and a well established tract that tiny extra width isn't easily accommodated. If the tube has been accidentally displaced and there has been nothing in place for a short period of time (a day or two) it can be quite difficult to replace a new tube. We have small tubes - dilators - in different sizes and may need to use local anaesthetic as we dilate the tract up sufficiently to pass a new tube.

So I'm thinking the same must apply to this surgically created channel.
Can't remember where I saw it, Twitter probably, but someone posted a dilatation schedule which was provided as guidance for post operative care. Let's just say it was A LOT more time consuming than cleaning and flossing your teeth twice a day. It would take real commitment and either no job or an ability to get up a couple of hours earlier than would otherwise be necessary to keep up with the schedule.

When I first looked at this about eight years ago, there were lots of tips and tricks online telling men how to talk to their doctor in order to hide their fetish and pretend they were suffering from gender dysphoria.

Left wing news site Novara Media, whose Contributing Editor, Ash Sarkar, is (ironically) a regular guest on BBC Radio's Moral Maze, last year published and promoted a how-to guide for teens and young adults on how to manipulate the NHS into giving them sex change surgery. Tips included how to suicide bait effectively, talking points and scripted lines on how to describe genital dysphoria, and tips on which grade and specialist of healthcare professional were easiest to manipulate and why.

Spot on (sadly, and appallingly).

I was struck, watching the Stella O'Malley documentary, by how innocent and young the transmen appeared. They were in their late teens, early 20s, but acted and talked as tho much younger.

If hormone blockers every hormone that leads to development, thereby arresting one's development, I can't see how mental function wouldn't be affected.

Apart from the sheep study, no one appears to be concerned enough to study it.

Certainly doctors won't do it, because it could result in lawsuits, and their income stream drying up.

From beginning to end, the entire issue is one of indescribable negligence.

One of the worst parts to me is those adult males who have their fully intact male genitals, in full working order, often have children and active sexual behaviours obviously important to them are advocating for surgery for children that will leave them deprived of all of these things.

Ah, thank you Lucy, that makes sense. I always wondered why that piece of skin would still smell unpleasant, etc, given it was nowhere near food.

I also like ^potniatheron*'s explanation that it's just a terf!

This is exactly right.

Historically, men who had AGP were refused surgery and hormones, because the NHS wasn't about to finance a fetish.

As a result of transactivism, you now have transgender women, not transvestite men, and transsexual men.

Patently obvious fetishists have managed to use the ideology as a means to get the NHS to dispense with any gatekeeping.

When I first looked at this about eight years ago, there were lots of tips and tricks online telling men how to talk to their doctor in order to hide their fetish and pretend they were suffering from gender dysphoria.

Now, there is no hiding at all. It's completely in the open.

But 'trans' children are still necessary to prove that they have 'always felt this way'.

I don’t see how this is published under paediatric and gynaecological medicine. The person subjected to this procedure was not a child, surely, or how could they consent?

I suppose the gynae is there as a destination.

Attempting to justify this totally unethical and barbaric surgery by co-opting biological women into it and doing totally false equivalence.

Was it the DSM, or some insurance coverage document that surprised me by managing to square the circle that way.

Having decided that "gender dysphoria" was not a mental health condition, they wanted to still justify it being some sort of medical condition so it can get insurance coverage.

So what they settled on is it being a sexual development disorder. A man not having a woman's body (if he wants one) or a woman not having a man's body (if she doesn't want a woman's one) is denoted as them having "atypical" sexual features which need to be corrected. A girl who says she's a boy should be able to have her breasts removed under insurance because they're abnormal growths (for a boy), and a man who says he's a woman should be able to get a "vagina" installed because women are supposed to have vaginas.

I was going to post this as well. It gave me the rage! Excuse me, how the hell does this have anything to do with biological women??! Attempting to justify this totally unethical and barbaric surgery by co-opting biological women into it and doing totally false equivalence. It's totally dishonest. No wonder these same people are happy to perform these surgeries! Lying and obfuscation of truth lies at the very heart of this. That's where it starts.

Why somehow this is considered verboten in the case of gender identity disorders, is mystifying when the outcomes of these awful surgeries are hardly a preferable alternative solution.

It is less mystifying when you realise that the roots of the current MtF transgender trend is fetishism.

These are men whose fetish is to be penetrated 'like a woman'. So counselling will not satisfy them nor will plastic surgery to the external genitalia only. Their obsession is with achieving a 'functioning vagina', like what they see in the sissy fetish porn to which they are addicted.

These men were understood as having a fetish for decades. It's only in the last 10 years that they have managed to convince Western Governments and healthcare providers that trans is not a fetish but is a state of being. They have had to do this in order to get access to the fetish-satisfying surgery they desire.

In order to make this surgery seem as urgent as possible, they claim they will commit suicide if they do not get it. They have also invented a concept called the 'trans child', which previously did not exist, as until recently we knew perfectly well that children do not have sexual fetishes. Yet the creation of the 'trans child' was necessary to justify the fetishes of adult men and portray them as an innocent medical condition.

And so here we are, with children being stunted, mutilated and dying to satisfy the fetishes of adult men.

Go to r/mtf and search using the term 'fistula'. It's devastating what they go through, especially these poor kids who were on blockers.

@ValerieDoonican and @NecessaryScene

There was a class action lawsuit in the US in the mid-2000s. Half a dozen women suing a big pharma company which made the puberty blockers which they had been put on for premature puberty.

In their case they said the blockers had left them with osteoperosis, infertiility, constant pain, stunted growth and cognitive difficulties.

They were on the blockers for an average of 6 months each.

trans children are on them for typically 3 - 4 years.

Thanks @NecessaryScene , that's interesting and potentially very depressing 😕

Going back up the thread a bit, has anyone looked into the cognitive impacts of puberty blockers?

I don't recall the state of the human research - I believe it's thin to non-existent - but there has been some animal research. This from the Economist, via Maria McLachlan's site

Several legal cases have been brought against drug firms by adults who took puberty blockers for precocious puberty. They allege cognitive deficits, brittle bones and chronic pain in later life, though none has made it to court.

Animal studies suggest such concerns may be worth investigating. One 2017 study looked at sheep, which go through a developmental spurt similar to human adolescence. Sheep given puberty-blockers performed worse than controls on a maze-navigation task, suggesting their spatial memory was inferior. A 2020 paper looking at mice found, among other things, that females given puberty blockers were more timid in unfamiliar environments, and gave up sooner on a “forced swim” test that is commonly used to assess whether anti-depressants work.

A bit more on the sheep study in a thread here by Malcolm Clark.

https://twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1552720563772293120

@myveryownelectrickitten Spot on

If I said I was the Queen of Sheba you wouldn't go along with it no matter how much I asserted that it was the truth. No matter how many times I told you to address me as such or treat me as a monarch. Because you would understand that I was delusional and would seek to find a cure. Somehow we have become sucked into the delusion that a man can become a woman and that it's unkind to suggest that leaving the body as it is but seeking to change thoughts might be best. And wear a dress if you want.

I cannot for the life of me see why talking therapy designed to help someone come to terms with the “disappointment” of not being a woman should thought of as somehow unspeakably awful, but surgeries like this are thought of as perfectly okay.

Many people with mental health issues, and awful situational issues from abuse to eating disorders to bereavement, are in need of therapy to help them come to terms with trauma and loss in life. Why somehow this is considered verboten in the case of gender identity disorders, is mystifying when the outcomes of these awful surgeries are hardly a preferable alternative solution.

It’s barbaric, and so ignorant on the part of the self-righteous gender warriors pushing treatments and outcomes they know nothing about. Every teenager high on the virtue signalling of gender ideology should have to look at and read some of this stuff to see what the reality of this fraudulent, damaging nonsense is.

And of course the 'function' of the vagina, apart from accommodating the male sexual organ to conceive a pregnancy, in one direction - is the passage of both menstrual blood, and a baby, in the other.

Just putting this here for the curious. Probably not if you're still eating your lunch.

Microflora of the penile skin-lined neovagina of transsexual women - PMC

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695466/

That is just my best guess - definitely don't take it as gospel!

Different cell structure in the body are evolved and designed to do certain things. Just because you have fancy pronouns, a trans flag, and persuade a greedy doctor to put a piece of colon into a wound between your legs, does not mean that the colon cells will get the memo. the colon cells, for want of a better word, are Terfs.

I also understand that should colon cancer develop, it is just as likely to be in the repositioned section of colon as the remaining colon. It's still colon and can still get colon cancer.
I believe it was Marci B that mentioned this.