Horrific case report after genital surgery *TW distress*

I heard this morning that some US states are legislating so that the medics involved cannot be sued.

It really doesake you wonder what it will take for people to work out that this is a oh, hang in, I can't say that on here. Never mind, it's only teenagers lives at stake.

How appalling that they can't orgasm! I mean what are we, as a society, doing to young people? No sexual enjoyment, no ability to procreate, possible health issues from cross sex hormones. And this is progress? How did we get here?

When I saw this thread I thought it was going to have been done in Mexico or Turkey or somewhere, not the Netherlands. What an awful, awful thing to happen to you.

I was also shocked to read that:
Dr. Marci Bowers, Jennings’s surgeon and president of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, is on record saying that all boys who have their puberty blocked early will never experience orgasm.

I think though the long term effects of blockers will turn out to be worse and worse and worse as the kids on them get older and older. This whole mess is just being handled so, so badly though.

I expect it is similar to endometriosis, uterine cells can “bleed” in different parts of a woman’s body.

What a stupid way to die.

And of course there's a lot more about bloody 'gender identity' [in school RSE lessons] than about how the hormonal changes of puberty can make you feel depressed, anxious, as if you don't fit in your own body. What a failure of adult responsibility. I'm going to have to talk to the school about this again aren't I. Sigh. Feels like pushing a boulder up a hill.

Keep pushing that boulder, @Dimorphism, for your daughter and her whole generation. I’ve been involved in feminist and other campaigns since the 1970s,, and this I think is the most important one we have to win.

I usually detest ambulance-chasing lawyers. But now I am longing to see them in action.

I want to see huge financial penalties for all involved in this filthy racket. The fines have to be big enough to deter companies and individuals from trying their luck again. I want doctors who have carried out this human vivisection to be banned from ever practising medicine again.

Couldn't care less, the patient was deluded and the surgeon a criminal Dr Mengele.

I think one of the attractive things to children about the trans narrative is that it's seen as a one stop solution. Doing counselling, taking time to understand how to make changes to feel better, having to wait while your body goes through puberty is just a lot more hard work and we live in an instant gratification society. @dimorphism

Also time passes much more slowly when you’re young. “Just” waiting until 16/18/whatever is an eternity for a teenager.

Scott Nugent has just been on GB News discussing these issues

I think one of the attractive things to children about the trans narrative is that it's seen as a one stop solution. Doing counselling, taking time to understand how to make changes to feel better, having to wait while your body goes through puberty is just a lot more hard work and we live in an instant gratification society. Surgery promises instant gratification, but is unlikely to deliver.

The idea that a doctor can just come along and change you and then everything is better, and that the reason you're unhappy is one easily fixable thing (being trans) rather than a multi-faceted and complex set of issues (which is far more likely), is very appealing.

I remember feeling like everything was wrong as a teen. I think that's normal. It's normal to feel like you don't fit in, even the most popular children often feel this. I wish we'd tell our children this, repeatedly. And that time makes things better - you don't always feel that way.

I remember the hormonal low when I was building up to my first period. One week I felt like a happy child and the next week I felt miserable and as if everything was wrong and then bam - period. There was nothing wrong with me, though I felt there was, it was purely a hormonal thing. Looking at my DD's school's RSE resources there is maybe one line about 'hormonal changes can affect your feelings' but I think there needs to be a lot more about how miserable it can make you feel and that to some extent you do just need to try and suffer through it, like every single other human has had to do.

And of course there's a lot more about bloody 'gender identity' than about how the hormonal changes of puberty can make you feel depressed, anxious, as if you don't fit in your own body. What a failure of adult responsibility. I'm going to have to talk to the school about this again aren't I. Sigh. Feels like pushing a boulder up a hill.

SirSamVimesCityWatch and dimorphism - thanks for the solidarity.

It is horrendous. I love my wonderful and talented DGC dearly. And watching all this is agony. Autistic spectrum (very high functioning) features here too and there is a known link between that and body dysmorphia. This makes the surgeons even more exploitative.

Mischance

From a brief reading yesterday, I saw it suggested that using bowel section had lower risk of infection because it retains its own blood supply.

But again, given so much of the 'evidence' used seems to be such poor quality, I don't know how much I trust any of the assertions made by the medics involved.

One of the things the TRAs have been very good at is convincing children that all the responsible adults in their lives are against them and every single question about transition is purely 'anti-trans' propaganda. It's pretty classic grooming and reminds me of the case studies for radicalisation in the Prevent training I've done.

I think it's also why the brave young detransitioners coming forward to tell their stories are so important, though, because it's a lot harder to dismiss them in the same way.

Wow, just wow.

All the time we're told pretty much the only evidence this is all based on is the Dutch protocol - held up as the reason we're doing all of this.

Whoever has managed to turn a study WHERE A CHILD DIED as a result of unnecessary surgery into such a PR win and something to base a massive industry on is pretty impressive, to be honest, in a grotesque Dr Frankenstein kind of way.

Well, it's going to to be my go to response to anyone citing the 'Dutch protocol' as some kind of reason why experimenting on children is a good idea. 'Oh yes, the study where a child died as a result of gender reassignment surgery, that study?'.

I bet the Dutch team didn't want to admit they'd killed a child with their experimental medicine. So much more soothing to their consciences to just blame it on a random infection. And this is one of the main problems, adults being unwilling to take responsibility for their actions and the law not stepping in where it should.

@Mischance sending you solidarity. Is there any chance of directing your DGC to some of the detransitioner videos? Often children won't listen to adults but will listen to peers. Maybe just have a few videos playing in the background when they're around? They'll probably be cross at you for it, but even if they only listen to a tiny bit it will open their eyes to there being a different view and it not just being adults who are sounding the alarm but people who've been through it all. Even having the Jazz Jennings tv show on - Jazz has had a lot of post-surgery complications and multiple surgeries so even for the poster child of trans children it's not been easy or risk free.

Oh god, @Mischance , that must be horrendous for your whole family. I really hope you manage to end up in a situation that avoids the surgery.

This was touched on briefly above, but, yes, Michael Biggs in the Wider Lens was talking about this case. He says this was the death in the original "successful" Dutch protocol study.

(I saw this on Ovarit, linking to an article in the Post Millenial, citing the Wider Lens podcast.)

FFS - why can't we just link words in a sentence any more? The markup is broken.

Links separately below.)

Biggs noted that while early puberty suppression for boys who experience childhood-onset gender dysphoria has the advantage of creating a more feminine appearance in adulthood, the major disadvantage is the penis remains that of small boy making vaginoplasty much riskier.

“Instead of using the penile tissue, they will have to use some of your colon,” explained Biggs. “Now of course, that means opening up your intestines, and that's obviously much much much riskier because then you have a different site and of course, intestines are also messy.”

Biggs went on to say that the Dutch team do not acknowledge that the young person’s death was not due to a random hospital infection but rather was an indirect consequence of puberty suppression.

https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/338650/trans-teen-died-from-vaginoplasty-complications-during-landmark-dutch-study-used

https://thepostmillennial.com/trans-teen-died-from-vaginoplasty-complications-during-landmark-dutch-study-used-to-justify-child-sex-changes

Has there ever been any medical ethics findings published in any of these interventions?

I am reading this with my head in my hands - my DGC is desperate for surgery and very soon will be treated as an adult. So naive and convinced that these tales of medical problems are propaganda from the anti-trans lobby. We are trying to balance between injecting reality, but not alienating and finishing up being accused of "not understanding" and losing trust and breakdown of communication. It is desperate. Unless you are part of a family going through this it is impossible to imagine the distress.

These wretched money-grubbers who are making an income from this dreadful business are despicable. It almost feels like a game - a sort of party game - a jigsaw - which bit shall we take from where and where shall we put it? - never mind that they have no idea what the long term effects might be.

I am sickened by it all.

It stands to reason if bowel has been used. We all know how bad it is to have gut distension as a result of trapped gas. The bowel has lots of nerve endings and it’s meant to function in a very typical peristaltic way to pass food on through. The transplanted bit must wonder what the heck is going on.
Also, having read the book, Gut, I wonder how disruptive this surgery is now only to immune system but also brain. The gut/brain axis is now well recognised and there’s a link to depression and poorly functioning bowel. Has anyone stopped to consider that in the case of these surgeries.

I've just had a browse of r/MtF fantasy thread and they all seem to identify as lesbians who fancy women

Left wing news site Novara Media, whose Contributing Editor, Ash Sarkar, is (ironically) a regular guest on BBC Radio's Moral Maze, last year published and promoted a how-to guide for teens and young adults on how to manipulate the NHS into giving them sex change surgery. Tips included how to suicide bait effectively, talking points and scripted lines on how to describe genital dysphoria, and tips on which grade and specialist of healthcare professional were easiest to manipulate and why.

@potniatheron this is so awful I am struggling to believe it....😢Surely they have deleted it by now, that's truly dreadful.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8726601/

'The incidence of local wound infections after penile inversion vaginoplasty ranges from 4.0-16.8% in current literature (Bizic, Stojanovic, & Djordjevic, 2017; Buncamper et al., 2016; Horbach et al., 2015).... The incidence of local wound infections after intestinal vaginoplasty is approximately 1-2% (Bouman et al., 2014).'

So that might be another reason for the use of intestinal method, lower infections. However, according to this review

'Twenty-one studies on intestinal vaginoplasty were included (including 894 patients in total). All studies had a retrospective design and were of low quality.'

Doesn't inspire huge confidence in any of these stats.

@EmmaEmerald I follow a woman on Twitter whose surgeon used a perineal post during her hip operation which crushed and permanently damaged her clitoris leaving her unable to orgasm.