Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?

I agree. (Oh no, are we aligned!!)

The Tories have been crap on this issue and are not trustworthy and are dishonest.

But neither are Labour. Currently I think they are more dangerous.

Politics is a nasty game with not much choice for us mugs the voters.

It isn’t persuasive to say - ‘don’t vote for these people, they are untrustworthy’, if there is no one trustworthy to vote for.

If no one is trustworthy it isn’t a point worth making to support your argument, so why say it?

If a party is trustworthy, it is a point worth making, but you need to evidence it.

I don't have a huge amount of trust for most of the current crop of politicians tbh but stop with the whataboutery.

The point of this thread is about voting conservative because of a single issue. Even if I thought that was a good idea in itself, they have proven themselves to be wholly untrustworthy and dishonest. So I am surprised that anyone would believe they will do anything they say they will.

I don't think anyone believes the Tory's have been perfect on this.

But what's the comparator?

What the Labour Party would have done, or will do? Does anyone seriously think that if they were in all this time, the situation would be anything other than a total shit show?

How about the government in Scotland, or Wales? Or Canada, or New Zealand? In some of those cases, the legal changes have been made to basic legislation, people who speak out can be legally vulnerable. Certainly the press has to be careful.

People are making judgement about what has happened on this not by comparing to some ideal situation or party which doesn't exist, but by comparing to what would have happened had another party been in.

And it's up-ended people's sense of those parties because they expected that the left parties would protect women's rights, and the right parties wouldn't. They've had to ask themselves why that's happened, especially when it's not just the UK, but other places - it doesn't seem like a fluke.

Continually pointing out the Tories aren't perfect doesn't really speak to that reassessment.

I’m a Labour voter and am tearing my hair out how shit Labour have been on this issue. There are plenty of threads about that.
As this thread is about feeling ‘forced to vote Tory’ and given we have had a Tory government for 13 years it seems fair to look at what is so great about this Tory government’s actual record on women’s rights. Thus far (in either good or bad faith) some people have miscredited positive things for women that the gov either haven’t done or weren’t wins for women.
I’m still looking for all the compelling reasons shown by the actual actions of this government for why anyone should vote for them on this issue and while NotHavingIt has rightly pointed out some Tory individuals saying the right things, all of whom I appreciate, yet I am still frustrated how little the Tories have actually done to help in 13 years. Yes good actions in Scotland over GRR but this was also a deeply unpopular issue with voters and the Tori’s needed a way to clip the SNPs wings and they were heading for a clash with EqA.

This is issue isn’t left v right issue which is why it has influenced both left and right politics. So I still maintain the Tories are not a GC party. None of them are. And the Tories have a shocking record in office for increased poverty for children and households in general which impacts disproportionately on women (who head up the overwhelming majority of single parent households) etc etc so I absolutely question their commitment to women and children, just to give one example.

I want to see cross party consensus on safeguarding and women’s rights being key issues and want to see ALL parties compete for women’s votes on that basis.

I genuinely don't understand why anyone would trust them. They don't have a great track record.

Who do you trust, and why? What makes them more trustworthy than the current government?

I stand corrected.

You actually referred to 'these people' (like me) who don't care about women and girls, extreme and dangerous and we validate scum.

So just to be clear... I'm not scum myself, I'm just extreme, dangerous, & validate scum.

Oh and I don't care about people at all.

Are you 15?

Two high profile commentators, yes.

This is really fucking boring and a distraction from the issue at hand which is a willingness to continue to uphold a disgusting government over a single issue.

I genuinely don't understand why anyone would trust them. They don't have a great track record.

But your social conscience includes refering to people as scum?

You accused me of calling you scum. You were wrong @MalagaNights.

Well it's you who brought up and alluded to insults. But ok if you want to leave it.

I've voted Tory because I have a moral conscience and think it would overall be better for society than the current dangerous leftist ideology.

Look at that... we're making different decisions but with the same good motivations... who'd have thought that was possible?
Anyone who either wasn't 15 years old, or ridiculously naive and sanctimonious.

I'll trade some insults if you like: you are very silly.

People at that time thought Roots was non-fiction too, because that's how Haley presented it. Speaking about manipulation of the narrative.

Whereas charmers like Lloyd Russell-Moyle - I don’t trust him with the safety and protection of women and girls.

He is terrifying. It's as if 1984 was , to use a cliché an instruction manual not a novel. He is consumed with hatred for anyone who disagrees with him on anything. His election acceptance speech is a good example of what a nasty piece of work he is.

@MalagaNights I think people who consciously support the current government are lacking in any social conscience and fundamentally are selfish. Let's leave it there eh.

People are welcome to try and get something they want done, but it won't always happen. That doesn't justify just doing it anyway.

Looking at groups who have wanted to remove evidence of earlier regimes and systems, or redact them so everyone knows they are supposed to think badly of them, are always convinced their cause is very righteous. But in the end its always to protect their own worldview from being seen as something other than the end of history.

I’ve just remembered. Labour brought in the stupid Equality Act as a parting gesture, getting rid of the Sex Discrimination Act as the result of being easily lobbied. They also brought in the GRA. They relaxed gambling laws. It’s not like they get the moral high ground on that front either.

Food for thought there, Demi. The loss of women’s rights is the biggest issue for me. But now you mention it, the left seems to have wandered off into other weird and futile paths too.

What insult would you use for people who vote Tory?

easy-lobbied and incautious government

This is fair enough. Does anyone remember how David Cameron would even have you to dinner for a fee?

Yet…. The state of Labour fgs. Are they any better? Seriously? They are a dog being wagged by its tail.

Ffs, I also care about the safety of women and girls but I won't align myself with people like that to further my argument.

I would also never vote conservative and strongly believe that anyone who does, doesn't care about people at all.

Scum wouldn't be the insult I'd use for people actively choosing to vote for a party destroying lives.

Miriam Cates - a Tory - she definitely gives a shit about the safety and protection of women and girls.
Baroness Nicholson of Winterborne - also Tory, as does she.
David TC Davies - same for him.
Etc, etc.

Plenty of good eggs among the Tories.

Whereas charmers like Lloyd Russell-Moyle - I don’t trust him with the safety and protection of women and girls.

Yes Rosie Duffield is Labour, but she is isolated and unsupported by her party.

If you are voting solely on the single issue of the safety and protection of women and girls, Labour really don’t have the edge.

Another point about this Tory government’s deeds not words problem , is that I don’t feel they have really learnt from the GRA reform fiasco. There seems to be a lot of misplaced confidence about that on here.

In fact the government has continued to show a lack of caution in this area despite the ongoing evidence from women, and an over-compliance to the demands of TRA lobby and all of this while the Cass review was not yet reporting: this is a sign of an easy-lobbied and incautious government, without an interest in safeguarding, who do not ‘know what a woman is’ in fact.

See for example the 2021 Government consultation on its proposal to introduce a new law banning “conversion therapy”

https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Sex-Matters-Conversion-Therapy-Position-Paper-2.pdf

Sex Matters outlined the problems with the Tory government position:

‘Although the government says “It is important that a person experiencing gender dysphoria is able to openly explore what works for them without feeling pressured into any particular outcome”, the legislation would contribute to the climate of fear for professionals, organisations and parents who do not support an affirmation-only approach to gender identity.
This will leave more young people facing one-way pressure to transition physically rather than being accepted as being gender non-conforming (and possibly same-sex attracted).
It will thus promote a modern form of “conversion” and homophobia.’

And I also care about the safety

@MalagaNights I was talking about Peterson and O'Neill as was very clear but ok.

I'm not GC, I am conservative, and I like Jordan Peterson.

I care deeply about the safety and dignity of women and girls.

The fact you refer to people like me as scum reveals you.