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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?

357 replies

ponderingsoul · 22/04/2023 11:31

Probably the wrong wording, but I'm curious - after always considering myself fairly left wing/ liberal and generally voting Labour (or tactically Lib Dem when I was in the SW), I no longer really consider them a valid option for me because of their gender views/ inability to take a view.

Has this happened to anyone else? Never thought I'd be a Tory, but now feel like I have no choice as this issue is so important to me.

OP posts:
Gingerkittykat · 22/04/2023 19:02

I am a former SNP and Yes supporter. The shitshow around Brexit has made me change my mind about independence and I won't be voting SNP or Green for obvious reasons.

I will never vote Tory or libdem so my only choice is Labour, I want the tories out of UK government and they are the best chance to get the SNP out in my area in the Scottish Parliament.

blackpearwhitelilies · 22/04/2023 19:00

Vote Tory if you want to, but don’t pretend you care about womens’ rights if you do.

Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?
SpringNTing · 22/04/2023 18:49

I’ll never vote Tory. Ever.

Ive never had any time for the Lib Dems or Greens anyway, but both seem captured too.

I can’t vote for Labour currently, though (formerly a lifelong Lab voter).

Pieceofpurplesky · 22/04/2023 18:49

WhatTheHeckyPeck · 22/04/2023 12:28

No. The Tories may "know what a woman is" but they sure as hell couldn't give a fuck about them.

This with bells on.
A vote for tories is a vote to keep women down. Their 13 year rule has seen women lose pay, benefits and respect (from government). Get them out and then fight on the twaw

Noicant · 22/04/2023 18:47

For me the key consideration is once TW (and then by default all men) are given full access to womens and girls single sex services and spaces how exactly do you get them out again. Once it’s done it will be damn near impossible to undo. It’s easy to give enhanced rights to a group, it is extremely hard to take them away once they become the norm. I genuinely think theres a lot at stake here for the women.

I live abroad (I wasn’t clear in my Previous post)so I cannot vote but in this case yes I think being a single issue voter would be exactly what I would be doing and I would feel fully justified in doing so. I have never felt I owed any one party my vote and have voted green, lib dem, conservative and labour in the past. I really don’t believe any of them occupy some sort of moral or ethical highground at all.

Slothtoes · 22/04/2023 18:37

Hepwo Give over, that’s putting it a bit arse about face about how government consultation works, isn’t it?

The Tories consulted on self ID because they were getting pro-self ID pressure, yes. But it wasn’t as though they didn’t really want to bring in self ID and in secret the Tories really hoped that the women and the gay community would all write in and save them from havimg to do it.. that’s just not how it works.

What actually happened was, women had been raising the case against having men in women’s toilets, sports, and prisons with the government as an issue of female safety, privacy and dignity, for years.

Women said the legal justifying of excluding men from women’s spaces under the Equality Act was not widely understood and many places didn’t feel confident legally to do it. So EqA was not a sufficient legal protection for us. Lesbian culture and women’s services and spaces were being changed seemingly irrevocably without these legal changes. Women saying this were roundly ignored by the Tory Government.

And then Stonewall, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence and whoever else was lobbying for the TRA, had at the same time been raising GRA reform with an eye to self ID and towards children under 18 being able to get GRCs and getting rid of the ‘spousal veto’ and whatever else.

Funnily enough the government then gave that TRA lobby… a full government public consultation on self-ID etc and the government made really positive comments about all this and the women that objected were called silly names and increasingly threatened.

The Tories also had to consult on self ID and getting rid of the spousal veto all the rest of it, because any process of law change to the GRA necessarily requires a consultation. They consulted on it because that is the first step to changing the law.

It’s quite wrong to imply that the government used that consultation as some sort of opinion poll (they’d already polled extensively and stilll wanted to go ahead!) or that it was great that they consulted because it flushed out loads of evidence. Firsly that is really not how they work and it also downplays the efforts of women making their case previously in the face of being ignored by the Tory gov and harassed online for speaking about that for years..

Result is now-under this government, no changes to EqA or GRA likely. The advent of £5 GRCs (when other government certification like immigration forms cost people thousands of pounds). And a Tory government who will do fuck all to change that situation forever if they can get away with never again touching this. because they’ve kicked this issue into the long grass realising it’s a toxic nightmare. But they can always then also hold it over women that they might do something more to help TRAs, if women MPs ask for too much in future. I’m not grateful for these crumbs.

And again, I’ll ask Tory voters what the government have actually DONE that’s been good for women? Deeds not words.

Floisme · 22/04/2023 18:27

AutumnCrow · 22/04/2023 16:49

We have an independent candidate on the ballot paper for the forthcoming local elections and I've just been through his election leaflet and it's the most appalling rubbish. Semi-literate ('I have wrote this letter to yourselfs ...') and uncosted election promises, one outright lie, and some bewildering nonsense about 'getting more local GPs and dentists for local people'.

Erm ... it's a local council, mate, you can't force GP practices to open and 'service local people' Confused

I hope others have better luck with their independent council candidates.

Fair point, that's almost as nonsensical as claiming 99.9% of women haven't got a penis.

Whoiscomingtosaveyou · 22/04/2023 18:14

I’ll be tactical voting in future until the SNP are out.

Greydog · 22/04/2023 18:11

Our previous MP was a Conservative - the current is Labour. I have written to her about several issues - no response. The Conservative always replied when they were contacted. A friend of mine who has been trying to sort out something has had his email address blocked by the Labour MP!

Biscuitsneeded · 22/04/2023 18:02

WhatTheHeckyPeck · 22/04/2023 12:28

No. The Tories may "know what a woman is" but they sure as hell couldn't give a fuck about them.

This.

Currently I am politically disenfranchised. There is literally nobody to vote for.

JoodyBlue · 22/04/2023 17:47

The last 13 years have been difficult globally. If I could have predicted in 2016 how I would be voting in the next year or so it would have been Labour. It will not be now however, because there is no-one in the Labour party currently that I hold respect for with the exception of Rosie Duffield. I don't instinctively side with Conservative politics, but I will take the Conservative Party over the Labour party right now. For me usually issues and policies are what guide me to vote. I see a more adult approach on the tory side, a more professional and considered approach to leading a country. Sunak is a better bet than Starmer who I would not trust. I don't really understand GC women who let Starmer off the hook.

AutumnCrow · 22/04/2023 17:47

Fact: Penny Mordaunt, when representing the government from the despatch box, said 'TWAW and TMAM'. She was 'Paymaster General' at the time.

Fact: She is still in government and has been made the Leader of the Commons by Rishi Sunak.

Hepwo · 22/04/2023 17:25

The operative word there is "consulting" @Slothtoes

Consultation is a normal part of the legislation process and in that case analysis of the responses led the cross party decision to not enact the law reform.

If that consultation process had not happened the pressure to change the law would still exist. There still is pressure in fact, along with outrage and bitterness from right and left wing trans allies that they didn't "win" the consultation, but there is now a body of evidence which shows why it should not change as a result of the consultation.

Labour and the Lib Dems and Greens would ignore that consultation and go ahead anyway if elected.

They would probably have ignored it if they had been in power when it took place for ideological reasons instead of the evidence based decision that was made.

Beachhutnut · 22/04/2023 17:24

Won't vote Tory but won't vote Labour or Lib Dem at the moment either so spoilt ballot here

Satsumastocking · 22/04/2023 17:20

Anklespraying · 22/04/2023 16:17

Tory - Been in for 13 years and my life has gotten much worse under them, knows what a woman is, because they would prefer them chained to a kitchen sink.

I genuinely don't understand how people can actually write things like this! The cliches the left hang onto are bonkers.
Is that what women who vote conservative do? Chain themselves to a sink?

Reading this website has certainly made me realise how nonsensical much of the left's view of the right is. It's incoherent.

If I vote conservative I'm voting that way because I want me and all the generations of women in my family chained to a sink.

It wasn't meant literally. It's more about how badly Tory policies have affected women's lives in particular.

DemiColon · 22/04/2023 17:17

Anklespraying · 22/04/2023 16:17

Tory - Been in for 13 years and my life has gotten much worse under them, knows what a woman is, because they would prefer them chained to a kitchen sink.

I genuinely don't understand how people can actually write things like this! The cliches the left hang onto are bonkers.
Is that what women who vote conservative do? Chain themselves to a sink?

Reading this website has certainly made me realise how nonsensical much of the left's view of the right is. It's incoherent.

If I vote conservative I'm voting that way because I want me and all the generations of women in my family chained to a sink.

I know, right?

Chained to the kitchen sink like Thatcher, May, Badenoch...

Women have done very well in the CP, and what's more you never feel they're being given a position because they are women, but because they have something to offer. Which is not always the case with Labour.

DemiColon · 22/04/2023 17:11

Squiblet · 22/04/2023 15:26

No way. The Tories are hopeless on climate change and appear to be actually going backwards on net zero.

The Net Zero concept is a scam. I don't know why environmentalists keep pushing it.

Slothtoes · 22/04/2023 17:07

Still hoping to hear of all the compelling positive things for women’s rights that has actually happened under this Tory government for women’s rights? Deeds not words. Can someone just outline their actual helpful deeds for women? Which they have been at liberty to bring to Parliament any time since 2010… what have they actually done for us?

The Tories have presided over this whole shit show, why do they deserve my vote?
Not long ago they were consulting on bringing in self ID.

There’s no safe gender critical party to vote for, honourable exception being the communists. Please tell me why on earth therefore I should be voting Tory if I care about women’s rights?

Cycleorrun · 22/04/2023 17:07

Not sure what Brexit has got to do with women's rights but as far as I'm concerned this issue is so vital that I can only vote for the best chance of saving them. Nothing I have seen from Labour persuades me that they aren't mostly full on 'women are bigots for wanting single sex spaces'. I cannot in all conscience vote for them.

AutumnCrow · 22/04/2023 16:55

Nellieinthebarn · 22/04/2023 16:52

I'm left wing, in some ways very left wing, but I cannot vote for Labour, Liberals or Greens due to the TWAW views that would soon become policies. I cannot bring myself to vote Tory, I hate this Government with a passion. I can't not vote, women fought too hard to get it, and the Trans want women to be silenced. But who can I vote for?

I wasn't joking when I said Communist. The Morning Star-producing communists still recognise the crucial importance of sex classes. The chances of getting a candidate, though, are slim.

Wedoronron · 22/04/2023 16:53

Sorry surely no one can vote for the terrible, corrupt. Popularist current Tories. Labour are being dickheads and hopefully will see the light but I will spoil my vote before voting for the vile vile vile Tories.

Nellieinthebarn · 22/04/2023 16:52

I'm left wing, in some ways very left wing, but I cannot vote for Labour, Liberals or Greens due to the TWAW views that would soon become policies. I cannot bring myself to vote Tory, I hate this Government with a passion. I can't not vote, women fought too hard to get it, and the Trans want women to be silenced. But who can I vote for?

AutumnCrow · 22/04/2023 16:49

Floisme · 22/04/2023 15:55

Ballot spoiling will be a last resort. I'm hoping for an independent candidate with a functioning brain. I've never seriously considered the independents before but I'm beginning to think there's a lot to be said for an MP who isn't tied to a party line.

We have an independent candidate on the ballot paper for the forthcoming local elections and I've just been through his election leaflet and it's the most appalling rubbish. Semi-literate ('I have wrote this letter to yourselfs ...') and uncosted election promises, one outright lie, and some bewildering nonsense about 'getting more local GPs and dentists for local people'.

Erm ... it's a local council, mate, you can't force GP practices to open and 'service local people' Confused

I hope others have better luck with their independent council candidates.

Pekkala · 22/04/2023 16:26

Ha. My darling DP is a raging Tory boy (I know, I know, I know, but he does have some redeeming features); and there was me all smug as he had FINALLY admitted Brexit is a monumental fuck up and now he gets to send me screenshots of Tories starting to stand up for women/common sense while Starmer et al sit there doing fuck all.
I mean, I'll never vote Tory, obvs. but it's just so ANNOYING to find myself be grateful to them.

Anklespraying · 22/04/2023 16:23

Rosula · 22/04/2023 14:33

Is this issue really so important to you that you are prepared to continue to throw the disabled, poor and elderly to the wolves, sell off the health service, close your eyes to government corruption and illegality, throw the economy down the drain, and send vulnerable refugees - including women and children - to a highly unsafe destination? Seriously? If so, how do you live with yourself?

If it's that bad here, ie wolves everywhere and 875 billion pounds sloshing around underground in the drainage system surely you already convinced this is a highly unsafe destination and we should all be on our way to Rwanda.

I might just get down the drain hole and see if I can find a nice chunk of the economy stuck behind a fatberg.