Page 9 | Asked gender and pronouns on antenatal form

bbypinkluffie · 2023-04-21T09:58:05+00:00

So I’m 7 weeks today with my first, and yesterday I got given a midwife, and my first antenatal appointment was booked, and was told I had to fill this form out before the appointment, it had an entire section where the questions were “is the gender you were assigned at birth the gender you identify as now?” And “what gender do you identify as?” And “what are your pronouns?” I didn’t want to participate in their questions, as I don’t agree with gender ideology, I don’t want to have to “declare” myself a woman, I am one. I don’t want to “identify” as a woman, I am one. I’m pregnant for heavens sake! But regardless I filled out the entire gender section, saying yes I identify with my assigned gender at birth, I identify as female and my pronouns I chose as she/her. I only did this to avoid being asked during the appointment as it’s my first appointment and my first pregnancy and I don’t want it being ruined by being asked about pronouns. I only pray now I’ve jumped through their hoops I won’t be called a “pregnant person” or “birthing person” or “chest feeder” now. For heavens sake!

diflasu · 21/04/2023 12:48

I'd have done the same and been annoyed I'd felt compelled to afterwards.

Sometimes getting the service with minimal fuss and focused on what you need it to be is just more urgent a concern.

Though if they do ask for feedback or after pg you feel more able to give it - I'd consider complaining.

Original poster

bbypinkluffie · 21/04/2023 12:48

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

I understand the NHS wants to be inclusive, but I had to make a complaint a couple months ago when I was admitted to gynaecology and needed an internal exam, I disclosed I had suffered sexual abuse as a child and requested a female to perform the exam, when the staff came in to perform the exam I asked “will it be a female doing the exam?” And the woman who was going to perform the exam said “yes those are my pronouns” again I understand inclusivity but who was being included in this situation? I wasn’t. The head sister nurse told me they’d take my name off and use this complaint in training, as they’d previously been told to use pronouns and stuff in training. If someone is biologically female and does not identify as such, they can make a note of this, it’s not fair to drag every single pregnant woman into this and make them declare that they identify as a woman. It’s a shame a minority is so catered to that patient care has been changed for everyone to accommodate them.

OP posts:

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 21/04/2023 12:47

Chersfrozenface · 21/04/2023 12:29

So as a midwife maybe you can answer? Who exactly does the assigning at birth? Is it you or the doctors? Are sonographers just making things up by claiming to know the sex before the baby is born? How does the assigning work? Is there a quota or do you just get to choose?

I too would very much like to see answers to these questions.

And I

FOJN · 21/04/2023 12:45

Personally I think anyone who is pregnant can't be all that serious about 'not identifying as a woman'.

I agree. They can think of themselves however they like but to force the rest of the world to invent a new language to acknowledge their "not like other girls" claim is ridiculous.

I can hardly believe midwives are indulging the "assigned at birth" bollocks. I can't wait until someone tries to sue one of them for incorrectly "assigning" them at birth.

endofthelinefinally · 21/04/2023 12:44

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

You are a midwife? Seriously?
Midwifery training must have changed even more than I realised. What happened to anatomy, physiology, sexual reproduction, genetics?

CampervanKween · 21/04/2023 12:44

I always cross out gender and put "my sex is female" on such forms. I mean, you're pregnant, it's pretty obvious 😏

Beowulfa · 21/04/2023 12:39

loislovesstewie · 21/04/2023 12:36

The question could be asked in a way that doesn't annoy the vast majority of women. Just make it an additional question /statement along the lines of 'is there anything else you need to advise us?' I can't think of any other way to phrase it but surely someone can?

This is really not complicated. The form asks medically relevant questions in clear English, and there is a box at the bottom with something like if you have a gender identity that requires staff to address you in a specific way please specify.

loislovesstewie · 21/04/2023 12:36

The question could be asked in a way that doesn't annoy the vast majority of women. Just make it an additional question /statement along the lines of 'is there anything else you need to advise us?' I can't think of any other way to phrase it but surely someone can?

Happylittlechicken · 21/04/2023 12:35

Snugglemonkey · 21/04/2023 11:30

I think you are being over dramatic. How on earth would something as mundane as someone asking a simple question going to ruin your appointment? Grow up, you are going to be a parent.

So in that case, why use it? I assume you’d be telling females with a trans identity to grow up and deal with the fact they are doing the very female act of being pregnant so a mundane question won’t ruin their appointment, or is it only women who should “grow up”?

Chersfrozenface · 21/04/2023 12:29

So as a midwife maybe you can answer? Who exactly does the assigning at birth? Is it you or the doctors? Are sonographers just making things up by claiming to know the sex before the baby is born? How does the assigning work? Is there a quota or do you just get to choose?

I too would very much like to see answers to these questions.

Whaeanui · 21/04/2023 12:20

The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want.

Ive never understood this. You are pregnant but get upset at being referred to as she or her when you’re not around. I mean the pregnancy reinforces the femaleness more than a pronoun for goodness sake!

ArabeIIaScott · 21/04/2023 12:05

Snugglemonkey · 21/04/2023 11:30

I think you are being over dramatic. How on earth would something as mundane as someone asking a simple question going to ruin your appointment? Grow up, you are going to be a parent.

How is it simple? What is my gender identity, and how do I know?

ArabeIIaScott · 21/04/2023 12:03

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

So it's fine to upset OP, in order to not upset these vanishingly rare, one might even say hypothetical, pregnant 'men'?

Why do OP's feelings not matter?

TheShellBeach · 21/04/2023 11:55

Well I'm also a midwife and I have never encountered a pregnant man.
Nor have I met a transman who wanted all the forms to be changed to accommodate her.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 21/04/2023 11:55

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

Where to start with this?!?!

The bit that really made me laugh was ‘the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care’.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 21/04/2023 11:53

My grumpy self would have put a line through it.

I had a few forms during pregnancy that asked for gender and I crossed it out and wrote ‘sex’ instead.nobody commented but one older lady smiled and laughed approvingly. I felt vindicated!

Happylittlechicken · 21/04/2023 11:52

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

So as a midwife maybe you can answer? Who exactly does the assigning at birth? Is it you or the doctors? Are sonographers just making things up by claiming to know the sex before the baby is born? How does the assigning work? Is there a quota or do you just get to choose?

maudesvagina · 21/04/2023 11:42

If they must ask why not
Do you have a gender identity ?yes/no
If yes what?
You already know the pregnant woman is female so don't need to ask sex

bellinisurge · 21/04/2023 11:34

"But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male"

There are only pregnant women. Ffs.

OP, you may need to breathe through instances of this stupid bullshit. Stay well.

TeenDivided · 21/04/2023 11:33

Have you seen the thread in the NFP Surveys board?

Personally I think anyone who is pregnant can't be all that serious about 'not identifying as a woman'.

Snugglemonkey · 21/04/2023 11:30

I think you are being over dramatic. How on earth would something as mundane as someone asking a simple question going to ruin your appointment? Grow up, you are going to be a parent.

sunshineandstrawberryjam · 21/04/2023 11:30

Well, surely that's the whole point of the form - so you now won't be spoken of as a pregnant person or chest feeder etc. And those people who do want to be spoken of that way will be. Everyone gets spoken to in the way they want. I don't get how this is a bad thing.

OlderandwiserMaybe · 21/04/2023 11:28

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

The issue I have with this is - the "people who are pregnant but identify as male" are surely the most tiny tiny minority of all the patients any midwife would see?!
By putting these stupid questions on an antenatal form we risk upsetting the majority of people in order to pacify the (rather noisy) minority

Personally I would of left that whole section blank.

JacquelinePot · 21/04/2023 11:28

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

Much better to potentially upset the 99.99999999999% of women who know they're women than risk upsetting the 0.00000000000% who have rejected material reality

Tinysoxx · 21/04/2023 11:27

Gender is meaningless, other than for a minute number of mothers who want to be called men or they pronouns.

However ‘sex’ is also meaningless as mothers are always female.

The ‘assigned at birth’ is irritating as it should be ‘observed’. And the identity stuff.

There should just be a pronouns question. Nothing else is needed.