Page 4 | Asked gender and pronouns on antenatal form

bbypinkluffie · 2023-04-21T09:58:05+00:00

So I’m 7 weeks today with my first, and yesterday I got given a midwife, and my first antenatal appointment was booked, and was told I had to fill this form out before the appointment, it had an entire section where the questions were “is the gender you were assigned at birth the gender you identify as now?” And “what gender do you identify as?” And “what are your pronouns?” I didn’t want to participate in their questions, as I don’t agree with gender ideology, I don’t want to have to “declare” myself a woman, I am one. I don’t want to “identify” as a woman, I am one. I’m pregnant for heavens sake! But regardless I filled out the entire gender section, saying yes I identify with my assigned gender at birth, I identify as female and my pronouns I chose as she/her. I only did this to avoid being asked during the appointment as it’s my first appointment and my first pregnancy and I don’t want it being ruined by being asked about pronouns. I only pray now I’ve jumped through their hoops I won’t be called a “pregnant person” or “birthing person” or “chest feeder” now. For heavens sake!

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:34

DifficultBloodyWoman · 21/04/2023 11:53

My grumpy self would have put a line through it.

I had a few forms during pregnancy that asked for gender and I crossed it out and wrote ‘sex’ instead.nobody commented but one older lady smiled and laughed approvingly. I felt vindicated!

It's not really that big a deal though, is it. Of course nobody gave you the validation you crave because you're taking it far too seriously

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:33

bellinisurge · 21/04/2023 11:34

"But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male"

There are only pregnant women. Ffs.

OP, you may need to breathe through instances of this stupid bullshit. Stay well.

What about intersex people who can get pregnant?

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:33

Good God is it really that serious? It's not harmful to ask someone their pronouns I don't know why you took so much offence to it. Some people who can get pregnant are not female, for example intersex people.

Gall10 · 22/04/2023 14:08

When you go into labour they’ll have a bloody good idea of what sex you are!

MargotBamborough · 22/04/2023 13:53

And then in bold, "If you are transgender and have been taking testosterone since becoming pregnant, please discontinue your hormone treatment and seek medical advice from your doctor."

MargotBamborough · 22/04/2023 13:50

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

But the forms have gone too far the other way, imposing this ideology on the vast majority who don't believe in it.

Personally I believe that if someone's dysphoria is mild enough that they are willing to go through pregnancy and childbirth to have a baby, they can bloody well cope with being referred to as a woman in generic communications or accidentally addressed as "she".

But if this nonsense is really necessary, the way to deal with it is to have a question at the end of the form saying, "Do you have a trans or non binary gender identity? If so, please tell us about it and let us know what pronouns you would like us to use when referring to you."

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2023 13:32

ReadersD1gest · 22/04/2023 13:19

How does being careful and considerate about religious beliefs feature in a maternity ward?
It's as equally irrelevant as whether a biological woman about to give birth considers herself a woman or a man...

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Well I'd have thought that food might be one possible reason it's relevant on a maternity ward tbh.

ReadersD1gest · 22/04/2023 13:19

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 22/04/2023 13:08

yup it is certainly a belief some people have and that is very important to them. I think the sex of transmen remains fairly critical to what's going on in the room but have no problem with healthcare professionals being careful and considerate of people's beliefs about gender ideology as they are about religious beliefs.

It is nevertheless reasonable to articulate that for women who do not share that ideology it can be upsetting and unpleasant to be forced to act as if you do.

It'd be good to have language that asked your gender identity and had a "no, thank you" tick box.

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How does being careful and considerate about religious beliefs feature in a maternity ward?
It's as equally irrelevant as whether a biological woman about to give birth considers herself a woman or a man...

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2023 13:12

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 22/04/2023 13:08

yup it is certainly a belief some people have and that is very important to them. I think the sex of transmen remains fairly critical to what's going on in the room but have no problem with healthcare professionals being careful and considerate of people's beliefs about gender ideology as they are about religious beliefs.

It is nevertheless reasonable to articulate that for women who do not share that ideology it can be upsetting and unpleasant to be forced to act as if you do.

It'd be good to have language that asked your gender identity and had a "no, thank you" tick box.

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Do you believe in gender identity? Yes/No

If you believe in gender identity what are your pronouns?

It's the enforced belief that's problematic.

Women and those who believe in gender.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 22/04/2023 13:08

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

yup it is certainly a belief some people have and that is very important to them. I think the sex of transmen remains fairly critical to what's going on in the room but have no problem with healthcare professionals being careful and considerate of people's beliefs about gender ideology as they are about religious beliefs.

It is nevertheless reasonable to articulate that for women who do not share that ideology it can be upsetting and unpleasant to be forced to act as if you do.

It'd be good to have language that asked your gender identity and had a "no, thank you" tick box.

Kucinghitam · 21/04/2023 18:22

bbypinkluffie · 21/04/2023 17:39

Goodness gracious I’ve come back onto this thread and I’ve seen comments have been deleted by mumsnet!

You'll find that The Righteous, despite being very eager to dish out dismissive sneery misogyny to others, are extremely delicate at anything less than perfectly adoring affirmation towards themselves.

FOJN · 21/04/2023 18:14

Repeat after me, women are not being erased.

Apparently Dr Proudman is a feminist.

twitter.com/DrProudman/status/1649131677858275331?s=20

Chersfrozenface · 21/04/2023 17:54

I think midwives and managers need to know that women are upset, distressed and angry about this kind of language, but often too terrified to complain.

Many are already alarmed by the reports of serious failings in maternity services and then they have this on top.

It's really not a healthy situation.

Original poster

bbypinkluffie · 21/04/2023 17:39

Goodness gracious I’ve come back onto this thread and I’ve seen comments have been deleted by mumsnet!

OP posts:

ArabeIIaScott · 21/04/2023 17:03

This shit is hurting women, upsetting women, confusing women - and worst of all is the feeling that we can't speak up about it for fear of pushback.

How the fuck did we end up here?

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 17:02

pumpkintits · 21/04/2023 16:55

Please tell me as a midwife that you don't refer to women as "pregnant people" That "chestfeed"?!

I would be putting in a complaint about you if you spouted crap like that.

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Maybe you’d like to read the full thread where I talk about where I’ve actively pushed back at any mention of changing paperwork to pregnant people or chest feeding. Or where I say I don’t like the term pregnant person. 🤷‍♀️

pumpkintits · 21/04/2023 16:55

QuintanaRoo · 21/04/2023 11:19

But some pregnant people who are biologically female will identify as male. The forms are there so staff don’t upset them by referring to them as she/her if that’s not what they want. You can disagree with someone who identifies as a man being pregnant all you want but the nhs provides holistic, patient centred care and if they get it wrong there will be complaints

im a midwife and believe me I’ve seen the sort of complaints along these lines.

Please tell me as a midwife that you don't refer to women as "pregnant people" That "chestfeed"?!

I would be putting in a complaint about you if you spouted crap like that.

GCMM · 21/04/2023 16:52

OMG, that Danish statue is something else! What a disgrace - a lesson in how to gaslight an entire nation. It doesn't even look remotely like one of the vanishingly rare breastfeeding transmen.

hotdiggetydog · 21/04/2023 16:52

ArabeIIaScott · 21/04/2023 14:10

“When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

Bravo

Weallgottachangesometime · 21/04/2023 16:48

“Maybe it is the hormones”

So ironic that someone on a feminism board has made this comment. Give yourself a shake!!

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2023 16:47

Weallgottachangesometime · 21/04/2023 16:43

The thing I find odd about asking these questions specifically is that it must apply to such a small proportion of people. I am there age many more pregnant women that are autistic or have hearing impairment or history of sexual abuse, or have religious practices to follow etc. all those things would be relevant to know about in terms care at the first appointment. Do all those questions gets asked on the form too? I’m assuming not. Even though you could argue those things would be much more significant, and more common, in the population of
Pregnant women.

Well quite.

Its not about health or wellbeing of women is it? If it was they'd identify issues that might prove more relevant during childbirth or immediately after that affect many more women like the ones you mention.

It's about politics and removal of power from women. It's about putting women in their place at the bottom of the ladder.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2023 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Translation: "Shut up woman. Just be grateful to be having a child. You are a bad mother before you even become one How dare you have political opinions and feelings. Know your place".

It's fascinating to see the misgyonist comments dished out to women over anything to do with health care provision. So much abuse and use of power to try and control women's behaviour in so few words.

Weallgottachangesometime · 21/04/2023 16:43

The thing I find odd about asking these questions specifically is that it must apply to such a small proportion of people. I am there age many more pregnant women that are autistic or have hearing impairment or history of sexual abuse, or have religious practices to follow etc. all those things would be relevant to know about in terms care at the first appointment. Do all those questions gets asked on the form too? I’m assuming not. Even though you could argue those things would be much more significant, and more common, in the population of
Pregnant women.

Hepwo · 21/04/2023 16:42

The inclusive people get nasty with the non believers!

We just don't believe.

Repent, you must repent!

Inclusive is spelled wrong, it's actually diviinclusive

Izzy24 · 21/04/2023 16:42

Happylittlechicken · 21/04/2023 11:52

So as a midwife maybe you can answer? Who exactly does the assigning at birth? Is it you or the doctors? Are sonographers just making things up by claiming to know the sex before the baby is born? How does the assigning work? Is there a quota or do you just get to choose?

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No need to shoot the messenger!