Barbie Kardashian to be moved from Woman's prison

Pennywise Kardashian.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/helen-mcentee-approved-housing-of-inmate-alongside-prisoners-of-the-opposite-sex-42444800.html

This article, from Mark Tighe, seems to say that in Irish law it was entirely legal to house Transwomen with their own sex, as the laws were gender neutral.
.He said the issue of accommodation was governed by a 2007 Statutory Instrument. He said this also did not require the separation of genders but "for obvious reasons of operational considerations and security” it was always the case that "both genders were separated.

Why then did Helen McEntee make the decision to place violent males in with women?

How does the Irish law define mental illness when it comes to crimes? Are personality disorders, such as psychopathy, included or not?

I read something on this when the Barbie Kardashian case was first discussed, in an article or post where someone stated that cases like this one fell through holes in the definitions the law uses.

@potniatheron all I can say is that Ireland is a disgrace. We are headed down a very dangerous road.

This is a man who tried to scalp and gouge out the eyes of his social worker, raped and assaulted his mother, and said that he loved the sound of women screaming in pain.

I am convinced that BK is a serial killer in the making. A significant proportion of serial killers enjoyed dressing up as women because they regarded being 'female' as being subservient and worthy of abuse (prominent trans thinker and author Andrea Chu also thinks this): e.g. Ed Gein, Ed Kemper, Peter Sutcliffe, Hadden Clark, Chales Manson, Henry Lee Lucas, Doil Lane are just a few of the serial killers who also were trans women.

There needs to be urgent research on the causative or correlative links between AGP trans and violence against women. BK would be a great living case study.

And yes the fact that he spent a year in a women's prison should be a focus of global media excoriation.

Id'ing as a woman but keeping male genitalia, presumably, and threatening to rape your own mother seems to negate the need to call him female and send him to a female prison. We need more common sense about this.

TBF to Barbie, the cross sex identity is not a new identity (although a diagnosis of gender dysphoria was not given despite Barbie being seen by Tavistock clinicians).

BK’s own legal counsel said ‘several personality disorders’

according to this article: https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dangerous-transgender-prisoner-barbie-kardashian-29526551

Barbie has been self-identifying as a girl/woman for at least 6 years while in state care and is unlikely to go to a male prison as long as gender self-id remains the law in Ireland.

I don't know this particular case, and don't want to, but as with the other media reports of such 'trans women' (who mysteriously identify as such only after committing their horrendous male crimes), I bet this person will be dropping the ridiculous name and any other dressing up accoutrements the second they go to a male prison. What a pathetic waste of time and money these people are, as if being a criminal is not enough of a burden on the taxpayer.

Not sure, but the assessments all stressed a very manipulative personality in control of what they were doing and adopting a persona as a means to an end (there's a link somewhere on one of the BK threads).

And if Barbie had been judged mentally ill then a challenge against compulsory detention might be easier and more likely to succeed than one against a straightforward conviction for criminal assault.

It's horrible all round, an abused child failed by the system for over a decade, then almost unmanageable when the state eventually intervened.

Think in order for you to be sentenced to the CMH you would need to put in an insanity defense which BK did not do

How??!

The only option of that kind is the Central Mental Hospital and B K has been assessed as not mentally ill.

TBH, I hope BK sues so more sunlight is on the issue and the Government don't get to sweep this under the rug. I want everyone in power to have to nail their colours to the mast about this

I think if BK goes quietly to a mens prison then those in power will get to claim its all hunky dory nothing to see here, alls fine in Ireland, nothing wrong with the GRA etc. and it will likely take an Isla Bryson situation for the problems with the GRA to be brought up again. All the meanwhile other countries will cite Ireland as a country where self ID is going swimmingly

Why isn't this disturbed individual in a high security hospital, like Broadmoor?

100%. Women were not given the choice. These men enforced themselves into our spaces & are continuing to erode our fights @teawamutu just look at sports ffs.. They don't want third spaces, they want ours.. Enough is enough, common sense must prevail. Don't end up like Ireland.

That’s a transphobic term. Not acceptable on mumsnet.

My lightbulb moment, after years of going along with 'be kind, they've suffered so much, it's nice to share':

No-one. Ever. Asked. Us.

Not once. Never even occurred to them to see if the support humans minded.

On reflection, I mind that very much. Fuck that shit.

@teawamutu if only one woman feels violated & uncomfortable with a man in a woman only designated space it's one woman too many. You are absolutely right. No woman should ever feel safe or uncomfortable in women's spaces. It's fucking disgusting that men's feelings are overriding women's & they feel completely justified & entitled to muscle their way into to our toilets, changing rooms & claim our rights as their own.

The decision won't be because they care about the staff more. A high number of the staff are women and, not being incarcerated, they do actually have a choice over whether to work there. If you worked in a womens prison and were expected to come into contact with Barbie I bet you'd be looking at other jobs PDQ.

No, no they should not.

You do not get to give consent on behalf of women who: have been traumatised by male violence; are of different faiths and literally cannot share intimate spaces with males; find their privacy and dignity diminished by doing so.

You are not everyone.

I know that they didn't mix and that women's normal 'freedoms' and rights such as they were were greatly reduced in consequence, but the woman who spoke to Paddy O'Gorman indicated that they were close enough to be heard and to be overheard by, even if not seen and be seen by. The newspaper story suggests the transgender prisoners and the two women child-killers are in a separate place. Which still isn't good - I have no idea what the story is about the two women, but the extra punishment of being confined with men seems as inappropriate for them as for the other women. If prison is meant to offer some chance of rehabilitation, this isn't way to do it.

What do you mean by in a separate area? The trans prisoners on the women's wing have never been allowed to mix with the women. They take up much needed space, the women's exercise time is reduced because of them and they shout horrible things at the women, many who describe as terrifying. But they have never been given any physical access to the female prisoners.

Female prison guards have to deal with them including searches. And this has always been done with male guards present. It's not fair on the female guards but some degree of consideration for their safety has always been taken.

@DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry the GRA needs to be abolished here in Ireland , no ifs or buts. It's not in the constitution they can reverse it. The GRA took away women's rights. TRAs are not women & never will be. Or they can reword the GRA to create a third sex with third sex rights & third sex spaces.. Irish women need our rights & spaces back.

Presumably this is a pre-emptive move before the wording of the referendum is released and we start the debate. As far as I can see the other transgender prisoners (one of them also a violent sex offender) are still in Limerick prison (in a separate area? that's new if so). and BK will still probably have to be in solitary for the rest of the sentence - but where?

all a mess

and no, male bodied people should not be in the women's changing rooms, hospital wards, showers or loos.