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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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So, in single sex schools, if a girl wants to..

33 replies

GingereIIa · 16/04/2023 09:35

..be called a boys name, and wear the clothes of a boy , and want to be known as a boy etc. also wanting to go the whole hog, would the school be known as mixed? Or would thy have to leave? Or what?
Likewise if a boy wanted to do the same, could they then go to a girl's school because they identify as a male?

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SageRosemary · 18/04/2023 20:10

Orchidflower1 · 16/04/2023 19:57

What they SHOULD do and what ACTUALLY happens is likely two different things. Obviously they should leave.

I disagree, there is nothing obvious about it. The school remains single sex, a girl may have notions but she is still a girl and her "fellow" students, girls, will be well aware of this. The girl should stay. She is safe there, there is no need for any physical changes to the school, it is appropriate for her to use female toilets and changing rooms. Problems with school sport will only arise if she uses male hormones. Her parents will be relieved to have her in a place where she will hopefully grow out of her notions.

All the notions, lotions, potions, inappropriate wrong sex hormones, butchery/surgery, in the world cannot transform a female into male or a male into female. The word trans is misleading, there is no point at which a person will actually transition into the opposite sex.

MissPollysFitDolly · 18/04/2023 19:56

Binfire · 16/04/2023 20:04

My DD attends a girls school (state school), she tells me that boys have transferred over from the boys school who now identity as girls whereas girls who identify as boys are staying at the girls school. So they’re all at the girls school 🤷‍♀️ Not to mention the furries.
Utter madness!

This is just unbelievable. What are the school authorities thinking? If I were a parent here I'd be making a big fuss.

Eggybreadwithcheese · 18/04/2023 19:38

A single sex school accepts all children of that sex, regardless of how they 'identify'. Of course girls who identify as transboys are welcome at girls' schools... because they are female and the school is for all female children. (My DD attends a girls' state school with several transboy identifying peers.... none of them shows any interest at all in moving to the local boys' school.)

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 18/04/2023 18:37

Of course transboys should stay at their girls' schools. Their trans identity is an expression of something and unless the school was the source of the trauma or indoctrination it's surely better to avoid the disruption of taking the statement at face value, however tempting it might be to expose the lack of logic!

I attended a girls' school. One good aspect about the school was that I was aware how precious education for girls really was, and what a precarious right it was globally. It is a shame that these schools are so afraid of their trans pupils that they remove the word "girls", thus severing all their children's education from the feminist history it sits within. This is not an accidental side effect of the lobby groups, in my opinion.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/04/2023 18:13

Zodfa · 18/04/2023 10:49

A pro-trans school would kick them out: they're not "girls". A gender-critical school would refuse them special treatment (uniform, pronouns): they're not boys. The actual inconsistent practice adopted by most schools of pandering to them just shows their moral corruption. They shouldn't get their cake and eat it.

I suspect their may be rather more trans-identified girls in single-sex schools as any girl regularly exposed to the reality of boys that age is unlikely to see it as something aspirational. Of course the "trans boy" identity has little to do with actual boys at the best of times, and even the ones in single-sex schools are savvy enough about what real boys are like to have no desire to move institution.

But a gender critical school wouldn't have a single 'gendered' uniform option in the first place - the girls would already be able to choose either trousers or skirt regardless of notions of 'gender'. A school which enforces gendered presentation is not gender critical!

CurlewKate · 18/04/2023 18:00

I want to see what happens if a trans boy applies to Eton.

thirdfiddle · 18/04/2023 13:56

I suspect their may be rather more trans-identified girls in single-sex schools as any girl regularly exposed to the reality of boys that age is unlikely to see it as something aspirational. Of course the "trans boy" identity has little to do with actual boys at the best of times, and even the ones in single-sex schools are savvy enough about what real boys are like to have no desire to move institution.

As proud parent of a delightful specimen of the species teenaged boy, I was wondering similar.

It does all seem relatively harmless as long as it stays in single sex schools. Putting boys who ID as girls in the girls school would create a safeguarding nightmare though. And what if they then desist, you expel them mid GCSE course, or they have to pretend to school that they're still trans?

LivMumsnet · 18/04/2023 12:41

Hi there, @GingereIIa , we've now moved this over to the Sex and Gender topic. Hope that helps.

Zodfa · 18/04/2023 10:49

A pro-trans school would kick them out: they're not "girls". A gender-critical school would refuse them special treatment (uniform, pronouns): they're not boys. The actual inconsistent practice adopted by most schools of pandering to them just shows their moral corruption. They shouldn't get their cake and eat it.

I suspect their may be rather more trans-identified girls in single-sex schools as any girl regularly exposed to the reality of boys that age is unlikely to see it as something aspirational. Of course the "trans boy" identity has little to do with actual boys at the best of times, and even the ones in single-sex schools are savvy enough about what real boys are like to have no desire to move institution.

ODFOx · 17/04/2023 15:57

At DDs (all girl) school they took a watchful waiting approach, used the preferred name and did nothing else. All of DDs peer group who tried out a trans identity had decided on female by the end of school.

KillerSandy · 17/04/2023 15:41

Local girls' school - they have several girls who identify as boys and yes they are called by their chosen name. No reference is to be made to girls - students. They are still as girls' school. As yet no boys have applied to go to the school. No idea what would happen.

TheaBrandt · 17/04/2023 15:38

My understanding (girls state) is that girls that decide to identify as boys can stay but actual boys who identify as girls are not allowed to join the school (headmistress quite formidable). I think they’ve got about right.

steppemum · 17/04/2023 15:33

mine go to an all girls school.

Many within the school identifying as non-binary and/or trans
Many changing names and pornouns.

School calls them by chosen name unless parents specifically forbid it, and then they apologetically tell students they aren't allowed to use their prefered name 😡
That also means that kids whose parents don't know just change names and pronouns.

toilets haven't changed. School now refers to our students not our girls.

There was some discussion a while bakc as to what they would do if a boy who identified as a girl applied, but the discussion seems to have been quietly dropped.

Thelnebriati · 17/04/2023 12:51

Children cannot legally transition as they cannot apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate, so however they present socially the school would still be single sex.

IDK why schools are suddenly pandering to children like this. Girls are still expected to wear uniform and follow other rules; they are still strictly policed because short skirts distract male pupils and staff; so this isn't about a sudden new belief that children should be allowed to express themselves.

flotsomandjetsome · 17/04/2023 12:29

DD is at a girls school. In her time there has been one student who can back to 6th form (who don't need to wear the uniform which is obviously for girls) wearing boys clothes clothes and using a boys name.

As they were still female, toilets and changing rooms were not an issue to the other girls, and I think they used 'they' pronouns.

The school was/is still a girls school, the school was ok using the changed name and no uniform rules were broken. The girls weren't bothered as they didn't feel their spaces were being threatened by males.

This would be a very different story if it were a male student wanting to attend as a girl - but knowing the school I very much think they would not take on a student in that situation.

GingereIIa · 17/04/2023 12:17

SummerSazz · 16/04/2023 19:19

At my DDs all girls schools they have a number who identify as boys. Not expelled and I don't think they should be.

However..... I do wonder how if they are so sure they are a boy then wouldn't they be 'triggered' by attending an all girls school 🤔🤷‍♀️

Of course they shouldn't be expelled, but could a boy who identifies as a girl join a girls school??? The same as prisons letting trans women go into a women's prison

OP posts:
GingereIIa · 17/04/2023 12:14

NoRiffRaff · 16/04/2023 18:32

NC for this. I work in a girls’ school and we have several that are following the trend. We have to call them by whichever name they choose, even if they change their mind on a weekly basis. We have provided a ‘unisex’ toilet.
Name of the school is ‘X Girls’ School’ but we are not allowed to refer to girls or daughters in communications or when talking to the girls. ‘Head Girl’ is now ‘Head Student’.

Jesus wept. What has this life become?

OP posts:
Leafstamp · 16/04/2023 20:10

Quartz2208 · 16/04/2023 20:06

Work in a girls school we have a Year 13 who has legally name changed and is a boy and a year 12 who is heading that way.

This is bonkers. In what way is she a boy?

SummerSazz · 16/04/2023 20:07

Binfire · 16/04/2023 20:04

My DD attends a girls school (state school), she tells me that boys have transferred over from the boys school who now identity as girls whereas girls who identify as boys are staying at the girls school. So they’re all at the girls school 🤷‍♀️ Not to mention the furries.
Utter madness!

Wow! I would not be happy with that. Madness

Quartz2208 · 16/04/2023 20:06

Work in a girls school we have a Year 13 who has legally name changed and is a boy and a year 12 who is heading that way.

Binfire · 16/04/2023 20:04

My DD attends a girls school (state school), she tells me that boys have transferred over from the boys school who now identity as girls whereas girls who identify as boys are staying at the girls school. So they’re all at the girls school 🤷‍♀️ Not to mention the furries.
Utter madness!

Orchidflower1 · 16/04/2023 19:57

What they SHOULD do and what ACTUALLY happens is likely two different things. Obviously they should leave.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 16/04/2023 19:49

I believe that in the UK single sex schools have made a clear distinction between sex and GI (for those that would say they had one)

Female children regardless of their feelings about their gender identity. Likewise you do not (now or ever) get chucked out of Eton for dressing in a frock.

Anotheranonymousname · 16/04/2023 19:26

At my DDs' school, the uniform is skirts or trousers anyway so there's nothing doing on that front. There are a number of girls who identify as male and go by male names. Interestingly, the older students I know who identify as male seem to have opted for quite traditional male names e.g. David, Joshua etc. whereas the Y7/8 girls have chosen more unisex names along the lines of Arlo, Rio etc. No-one seems to have been excluded from the school for identifying as male.

Walkingtheplank · 16/04/2023 19:26

GDST (Girls Day School Trust) have stated that only girls can attend.
So girls identifying as boys can attend, but boys identifying as girls can not.

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